Leyland Memories
William RHello Martin, I`m starting a new Forum here which I hope can keep together memories of Leyland. Since the Forum Meet I`ve done a lot of thinking on Leyland long gone. Looking around the district on my brief visit confirmed that I was using "eyes" of 50/60 years ago, all the familiar things had gone and I was copying Victor Meldrew in the "I don`t believe it!" vein. I can now understand how Noel must have wondered what I was posting about, green field situations, the M.O.S. Factory and indeed Leyland Motors (as it was). Dampslad must have wondered how long I`d been away, but now I can understand what he has given on the subject. Progress is being made, people must be attracted to the area, must feel they are part of a vibrant environment, not visiting a Museum - leave that to Beamish, Blists Hill and all the other Victorian Museums, brilliant as they may be. These are just my thoughts at this stage Martin, if you don`t think it warrants the interest, I won`t mind if you get the scissors out and do an editing job. If you think it will generate interest, let me know, and I`ll do some more reminiscing. From over the Pennines, Cheerio, William R.
LDunlop76Well, Bill, I'm of the belief that old reminiscences should be recorded for posterity in some form. It's all part of social history and I'm more interested in what life was like for real people than reading about what monarchs and politicians got up to. So go for it!
William RHello Martin an` all, Picture July 1948, just got married at Charnock Richard, and take new wife home to Bent Lane to live with Parents (bad move) It soon became evident that I had brought home an interloper, with comments regarding which political persuasion was to be followed, and don`t bring your religion into this house. Oh dear! The next thing was why had I not got a Council House in Leyland? Under the new order that the Labour government had established this was going to be comparatively easy. Gloom and despondency reign over marriage, so off to Council to get one of these Houses which are so readily available. Not so. We are only building them for people who really need them, after all, you have a roof over your head. Fill in this form to go on the List for Housing. Return to Housing office with completed form, now can I have a house? But you haven`t said how many children you have!! Sorry but I`ve only recently got married. Reply, come back when you have at least one child, but you`ll have a better chance if you have two. Twelve months later, having done as required, back to Housing to be reconsidered - sorry, one child does not really get enough points, come back when you have another. By this time parents were convinced that this refusal to house me was due to the fact that wife`s father was prominent member of "other" political party as well as being "well up" in the Church. Desperate measures were now required, by begging, borrowing and almost stealing, raised enough through the Co-op Insurance to get a mortgage on a semi det house in Chorley. We had a bed, a table and two chairs, a baby and all its equipment and some very generous in-laws, friends and neighbours. Married life could now begin, we had left Leyland and said it would be difficult for anyone to get us to go back. That was in October 1950 - in 1956 I got a letter from Leyland Housing Office to say I had now progressed up the List and would be considered for housin within the next two years, please reply. People getting married today expect to move into fully furnished houses with all mod cons. and generally do. You ask how ordinary people lived all that time ago Martin, I was an ordinary returned ex- serviceman, coming back to the land fit for Heroes. That`s how it was. From over the Pennines, Take Care and Cheers from William R.
LDunlop76
quote:
Originally posted by William R [br I was an ordinary returned ex- serviceman, coming back to the land fit for Heroes. That`s how it was.
My great-uncle came home from the war to Lymm and went from being one of the junior officer ranks with some responsibility back to dogsbody in his uncle's firm. He stuck it for 5 years, but finding he couldn't get a decent home, decent job etc. got an assisted passage to New Zealand instead and carved out a much better quality of life for himself and his family. I think GB was so much in debt to the US after the War, that there wasn't much left over to reward our War heroes. Ironic that Germany got back on its feet before Britain did!
William RHello Forum, I`m still in a confused state following my visit to Leyland on the 31st, I don`t know whether to take a sabbatical to gather my thoughts together or what. Being away for getting on for forty years requires some degree of adjustment to re-orientated after the initial shock of returning. As we rode around looking for places we used to know which were no longer there leads me to think people will think "What is he on about?" We rode down Centurion Way to see a completely unknown landscape, which left me wondering where the original M.O.S.Factory had gone. Down Wheelton Lane to where the L&B used to be; to look across to where the North Works was; Meadow St. where my sister was born seems the same, ditto Sumner St where I spent a short time 1929/30. Where is Thurston Road Canteen? Gone! When the Experimental was on the top floor, Parry Thomas built the Leyland Straight Eight racing car known as Babs, my Dad said he worked on the braking system before it went to race at Pendine Sands. Where is the replica which was built by Leyland apprentices in the early 1950`s? Reg No. UU49 I believe. I can understand Noel wanting to know about the time before Centurion Way was built, my musings must be unbelievable to him. Bent Lane still has the three houses on the bend with the Pub next door, but the land opposite where Wrights Fold is beggars belief. I could go on, but I won`t, was my memory playing tricks? Dawson Lane, The R.O.F., well perhaps its time to put the shutters up.....or is it? Comments please. From over the Pennines, Regards from William R. aka Bill.
Peter119Hi Bill Please keep the articles coming and I will keep you up to date with the changes Peter
anacortesdampBill: Thanks for the seasonal greetings, which I reciprocate to you and to the other forum coorespondents. We had a fairly quiet holiday, only 14 people to dinner on the Sunday before Christmas (children, spouses and grandchildren). The 25th itself was fairly quiet - just one daughter for dinner. I can certainly sympathise with your reaction to how Leyland has changed. I stopped over on a business trip to Bahrain a few years back, just after my dad and sister had moved to a flat across from St. James' church. I hadn't been for about 4 years at the time. Dad suggested I drive to Preston on the "new road", across Farington Marsh. I got so badly lost, it took the best part of an hour to get to Preston, and I was flabbergasted to end up on Marsh Lane - where did that extra bridge come from! Then I was dumb enough to try and get home on the A6, from Walton-le-Dale, and got lost again. There's a new A6 that doesn't go over the Bamber Bridge level crossing and there's even a motorway halfway down Lostock Lane. One of my biggest surprises was when my wife and I went to Windermere on one trip. Leyland to Silverdale used to be at least a 4-hour trip when we went to my uncle's caravan in Dad's 1938 Austin 12. In a modern small car, Leyland to Windermere is less than an hour! I think that's a tribute to small car performance as well as the new road system. It's a bit saddening to see so much of the heritage disappear, but the modern role of Leyland is as a dormitory town for Manchester and other major cities and not as a major manufacturing center. A friend from Seattle went "home" to Bristol a few years ago and now commutes from there, by train, to a job in central London. That would have been inconceivable back in the '60's, though I used to commute from Leyland to Blackpool by train every day when I was at Blackpool Tech. About 12 miles from where we live now is the Central Engineering and Rsearch Center for PACCAR. It has a very nice campus, with offices, test labs and a 4-mile test track. PACCAR is the parent company for Foden, Leyland and DAF. Its American brand names are Peterbilt and Kenworth. The world has surely changed, but I think most of it (over 50 percent anyway) is for the better. Who'd have conceived of internet forums e-mail and people in their 70's using computers, Bill, even 10 years ago. Would we really want to go back? I'm sure I wouldn't, despite the negatives of modern life. If you're weel grounded, you can cope. Best wishes for '03 and as many of the following years that you are allowed to experience, to all Forum participants. Frank Damp Anacortes, WA, USA
William RHello Peter, Some more musings for you to pass on to my friend Bill Waring. I`ve found my old Membership Card for the Home Guard signed by his Dad, its by Leiutenant H.Waring, did I promote him or did he become Captain? Never mind: one Sunday we went on an exercise to Eccleston on Camouflage in the field, which meant we had to proceed with caution through "enemy" territory to our objective map reference. Our little platoon went as directed, led by Lt. Waring, to be met by an Umpire who told us we were all dead. He blew his whistle and the surrounding bankings came alive with about twenty others who had been blending in with the scenery. We never saw them at all, but they showed us a quick way to the Brown Cow in Eccleston for a get together. Just like Captain Mainwarings lot on T.V. we were. Another one to make you think, During the war when we first joined the Home Guard, clothes rationing was in force; so, as the Home Guard had to be in a continual state of "readiness" in case of invasion, we were instructed to go to work in uniform and take our rifle and bayonet with us, also gas mask and steel helmet and small kit. Truly a fighting force to be reckoned with!!! We kept our rifles in racks by the main gate and collected them on the way out. The same applied to the other emergency services, N.F.S. the A.R.P. Wardens etc. So clothes rationing didn`t really affect us. Perhaps this explains why there was such a rush to "volunteer" for some sort of civil defence service? I`ll leave it there for now, more to come later. From over the Pennines, Regards, William R.
LDunlop76My grandfather was in a reserved profession (electrician on the docks on Manchester Ship Canal) during the war, so was in the ARP all through the war. He was usually on fire watch at the docks and the uniform required wollen combination underwear beneath the outer wear. He was allergic to wool (I think it was the lanolin in it) so spent every fire watch in a state of maddening itchiness! As if working all day, then fire watching all night wasn't bad enough! So Grandad certainly didn't volunteer for the free clothing!
William RHi Wiganer, We didn`t get underwear in H.G. not even a shirt, but once in the army experienced all the itches in all the places. Oh, I didn`t volunteer for that either. Had to run/march from Bodmin to St.Austell in January 1946, to be rewarded with a cup of cocoa and a piece of slab cake, then ride back in a three tonner. I think we were the original "beasts" of Bodmin Moor, walking about in the mire trying to look like soldiers in the wet mists as night fell. Cheers Bill.
William RHello Peter and all, I`ve just sent an eml to Noel on Tanks and it reminded me of wartime testing of tanks. Those old enough will remember how the streets around Farington works echoed to the sound of revving engines as Matildas, Centaurs, and all the others went down Northgate and up past the station, down Moss Lane to Wigan Road up to Lidiate Head and down to Bashalls Woods and back through Farington to base. Kerbstones broken down, road surfaces chewed up were minor misfortunes. Some tanks were even driven to Ellerbeck Colliery outside Chorley for testing in the mud and rough terrain. I bet Lady G can remember them turning round at the Hob Inn at Bamber Bridge. They were all over the place, but then there was very little private transport on the roads. At the end of the day they mainly went to Leyland Goods Yard off Chapel Brow for loading onto trains, I have a picture somewhere of them. I wonder if any fellow oldies have tales to tell of them. Just struck me, I wonder if Lady G can say anything about the "Battle of Bamber Bridge" when there was a bit of trouble at the U.S. Transport Section with the Negro drivers, don`t remember much myself, I know there were American Military Police all over the place with white helmets on. Its all part of local history, from over the Pennines, regards, William R.
CarolineWilliam, back to your first topic of housing. Mum and Dad married in March 46 and went to live with her Uncle Bill on Albert Road, just off Bent Lane. Like you, they'd applied to the Council for a house.I was born in January 47.Uncle Bill liked a drink, and when he nearly dropped the new baby, Dad remonstrated and he and Mum were told to leave . Just the excuse Dad had been waiting for- they went to live with Grandma ( at one of the three old houses on Bent Lane), extreme overcrowding there, and in a short time were given a new home!
William RHi Caroline, Like I said, no children - not on List. One child - in with a chance to get on List. Two children - better chance to get on List. Overcrowding - more of chance. In my opinion, Leyland U.D.C. had a Table of Points which they consulted to make up peoples scores in the housing lottery. We knew someone who moved down from Glasgow to get married in 1947, and moved straight into a house on Balshaw Road down School Lane and Leyland U.D.C. miraculously found utility furniture for them. Another we knew lived in two rooms above a shop in Towngate, tried and failed to get a house, was told to move to his wifes home which would then be overcrowded and as she was pregnant they "might have a chance". They stayed where they were in the shop`s stockroom and later moved to a house in Penwortham. There are numerous other instances I could quote, but I never did crack the system for getting housed. But when you start with nothing and slowly get things together as we did, you appreciate your home a lot more. One of the first things we bought was a dolly tub and a posser, and a nappy bucket with a lid (pale green enamel). Margaret used to go to a Mill in Chorley to collect material they supplied to make little girls` dress fronts for M.& S. with smocking, took them back and got a pittance for each piece, the original piece work. She had a young baby at the time, and it was all that was available. Still, we got by, that was 1951. Take care, William R.
noelFrank/William I can understand your getting lost after all these years. I spent 10 years down in Wiltshire and even that was a culture shock returning in 1988 to find Leyland Motors virtually dead in the ground, Leyland Paints gone, my dad's ex-employer, the moss road, the biggest shock though was the disappearance of Lostock Lane which was now a dual carriageway with the most horrendous of roundabouts, now 2 following the access to the M6. Is this progress though. I'm beginning to think I'm an old < well nearly old >stick in the mud .
Lady GriffinHi all! Have to say one of my major disappointments as Noel has mentioned was the change to Lostock Lane.It used to be a favourite route for me from Todd Lane South to my uncle and aunt's place in the old Lostock Fold, and sometimes on route to the Cloggers in the Brig in the really old days. Stopped at Dandy Bridge to look at the water flowing on the way where in times past my mates and I used to dip and then on to Bamber Bridge via the Fold -lovely peaceful walk.Have rambled miles around that area. The last time I saw the Lane I was too scared to tackle the walk.A sad change. The Battle of Bamber Bridge was a source of great excitement for locals but as usual I was told it wasn't for my ears.Drat! All I can remember is it concerned an American Unit based in the area possibly on the Cuerden Estate and in those days the negro servicemen had restrictions on their movements which was a source of resentment when the white servicemen were relatively free to move around. A mutiny developed when a white American officer shot a negro in the back. Guns were taken by negros from the arsenal and the battle began. No doubt the locals got involved as well but I would be interested if anyone knows more. It was likened at the time to another earlier battle at Walton Bridge between Cromwell's men and the Puritans which would have been in the mid 1600's.Probably a slight exaggeration. Thanks for info about Lydiate Head Bill there must have been a large area of houses if mum's was 458. I do remember the tanks well. Cheers Everyone [8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]
rocketmanjohnI found this on www.heretic.com John PS The word 'negro' is now politically incorrect over here, it's either 'black' or 'African American', don't know what it is if they are'nt American. What's the right word in England nowadays that does'nt upset anyone ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On the evening in question, Thursday 24 June 1943, several black GIs had spent their time drinking at the Olde Hob Inn, a thatched pub, unusual for this area, not far from their barracks. Bamber Bridge had been the headquarters of the 1511th Quartermaster Truck Regiment for several months though the town itself had little to recommend it and many of the men preferred to spend their leisure time in Preston. Quite a few of these soldiers worked long, hard hours delivering weapons and ammunition by truck to American air bases all over the country. With the weather warm and sultry (though hardly matching Detroit's highs) some had decided on this occasion to drink nearer home. Doubtless the troubles back in the USA were on their minds. At 10.00 p.m. the English pub-closing ritual began, to the jeers of the blacks and some local soldiers and civilians who were there. This attracted the attention of two white American military policemen, normally located in Preston, who happened to be driving by in their jeep. An attempt was made to arrest one black GI for being improperly dressed and one MP drew his gun when threatened by a black brandishing a bottle. After the occupants of the jeep beat a diplomatic retreat the vehicle returned with two more MPs. Arrests were again attempted this time while the black GIs were walking back along the quiet streets of terraced houses towards their base. Another scuffle took place and blood was drawn. An MP fired his pistol, hit one of the soldiers and there was further confusion and shouts of 'kill the goddam son of a bitch.' After several more shots were fired both sides withdrew, the blacks attempting to help their wounded. Back at the camp rumour fed rumour: many blacks of the several hundred stationed there were shrieking, and stories of blacks being shot in the back increased the tension. Though some men had already gone back into town with arms, at about 11.30 things seemed to be getting calmer. This peace was shattered at midnight, however, when an improvised armoured car full of MPs screeched into the area with searchlights blazing and a machine-gun aloft. Ignoring all pleas the mutinous blacks broke into storerooms. Stealing weapons and ammunition, they smashed through the camp gates and careered into Bamber Bridge, firing at any military vehicles or personnel they saw. British civilians watched the activity with a mixture of awe and horror. The MPs set up a road block at the end of one street, and it was here that one black was shot, to die several days later. Trucks continued to chase around the streets until the early hours of Friday morning when the mutiny, as it was termed, ended. Many of the weapons and several members of the battalion did not reappear for a few days. In addition to the dead GI, two other blacks and one white officer were shot and there were other injuries caused by bottles and fists. Over twenty men from the depot were eventually found guilty at two courts martial of charges ranging from assault, resisting arrest and illegal possession of rifles, to riot. Sentences of between three months and fifteen years were handed out, though on appeal these were reduced and most of the men were back on duty in about a year.
Lady GriffinThanks for adding colour to the story John-am sure it was played down considerably at the time. Sad about the word Negro as I personally feel it's more dignified than Black-means the same anyway. Cheers Linda
William RThanks John for the details. Living very near to the place, we heard something had happened, but being wartime the news was suppressed. We saw an increase in the area of M.P.s but never really knew why, as there was a big U.S. base outside Chorley, we thought it might be from there. Thanks again, the information is there, it just needs exposing. From over the Pennines, Cheers, Bill.
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