| Holiday Times Past |
| William R | Hi Forum. I can`t think of anywhere else to put this, so here goes. Son and wife just left for ten days in Greece set me thinking -1936/7 we`re going to Blackpool, do all the booking of an "Apartment", book at Leyland Station for them to collect your luggage. On Friday the horse drawn covered wagon with L.M.S. on the side calls for luggage; I remember the tailboard with the rope hanging over the back ffor the man to get on and off. Saturday early, get ready. Water and gas turned off, locked up, the start walking down Bent Lane to Turpin Green bridge, down BowLane to Moss Lane and to station. The Booking Hall is full of cases, but you find your own and go to platform. Finally arrive Blackpool Central, where first job is to book "Regulation Tickets" for your journey home next Saturday. Outside station are lots of boys with carts, prams etc to carry your cases (for a fee of course). Arrive "lodge" and meet Blackpool Dragon Landlady. You have to be out by 10-30am and don`t come back till 4-30pm, the front door shuts at 11-30pm so be in before then. Buy your food for the following days meal and hand it in. Enjoy your week!!! That was it. In 1939 parents could see the way things were going, Hitler was going to bomb us out of existence, so we had a holiday in Scotland. The usual things were done and we were on the way to `foreign parts` Arrive Gourock on the Clyde and by boat to Rothesay, Isle of Bute. There was a pipe band on the pier to greet us, the usual boys to carry cases, and it was a wonderful week sailing on the Clyde steamers, even to Inverary. On the Saturday we left, there was a pipe band and choir on the pier. We left tothe strains of "Will ye no come back again" not a dry eye anywhere. Four weeks later we were at war with Germany, but we had a holiday never to be forgotten. Enjoy your holidays abroad, we enjoyed ours in that `foreign land` Scotland. We got the message, my wife and I enjoyed happy days in Scotland when it was all over. Regards. Bill. |
| LDunlop76 | Thanks for sharing those memories, Bill. How times change! My kids today struggle to believe my tales of Butlins in the early 60's - the tannoy coming on at 7.30 to wake you up, the timed sittings for meals... there's no way we'd put up with such an authoritarian regime for holidays these days, but back then I loved it! |
| William R | Hello Wiganer, I know what you mean about Butlins. Much against my wishes we went to that one in Wales,(Pwllheli) and had a long train journey there, waited ages in Caernarvon station. When we got there I was very much anti Butlins, we were met by one of the Camp Comedians in loud suit and giant tie, I thought "Oh dear" (nearly) and went to Reception. What? no queues, everybody trying to help, got keys and was directed to transport to South Camp (memories of Service Life coming back}. We were told South Camp was very quiet for families with children, it was. The tannoy was so quiet, no bands of holiday makers marching round with the big drum. By now we were beginning to doubt all we had been told. The Dining Hall was terrific until......in he came on his bike shoutinmg greeting to all. That was the time ffor the Champagne Wheel picking the Lucky table, (failed again}. We sampled all there was on offer, visited bars, shows, bet on the Donkey Derby (lost), tried everthing on the free amusement park. Every night to the main hall for Bingo, until all children had to go to bed. Remember "There is a baby crying in Chalet No. B4 " . Not ours, relax!!! Get in the spirit for the nights entertainment, the last waltz, then Goodnight Campers. To me, with my worst fears quashed, it was smashing. We made friends, you had to join in things, nobody was left out. At the end of the holiday I admired the Entertainment Staff, the Redcoats and Caterers. I have quite a collection of Butlin Badges, the kids had Beaver Badges, I think my views changed a lot; moral - don`t believe all the horror stories, find out for yourself.Cheers, Bill. |
| Thornley | Hi, oyur holiday in Scotland sounds wonderful Bill. For most of my early childhood holidays were trips to Ireland to see my parents relatives, oh those terrible sea crossings! Then my dad passed his driving test, we bought camping equipment and discovered the Lakedistrict, heaven! We had a holiday in Minehead Butlins in the early 70's, unfortunatly dad misjudged the strength of scrumpy and was ill for most of the week! We have been having holidays abroad for a number of years but have decided to buy camping gear and discover the delights of this country again. I won't give up my time in the sun but I think the camping will be just as good as I remember, hope the weather is kind to us. |
| Lady Griffin | Hi Bill,
Loved hearing about the holidays.I was lucky to have a grandmother living in Blackpool so had some wonderful times there ,lots of memorable shows and great artists- ranging from musicals like "Lilac Time","Smilin Through", the Sadlers Wells Ballet, Comedy acts like Jewel and Warris,Morecambe and Wise not to forget the terrific Panto's.
Great in the busy season but my favourite time was in the winter when you could get blown to bits on the front and the sea washed spectacularly across the road.
Have just recovered an old timetable among my husband's treasures from 1962 showing the Pleasure Sailings Excursions and Tours by the Caledonian Steam Ship Company on the Lochs and Firth of Clyde.What great places there were to sail to.For a steamer season ticket cost 82/6d you could sail for 14 days anywhere on their routes.Ayr and Burns Country-Inverary-even a trip to Millport Illuminations.I wonder what that experience was like.
It was a very busy place judging by the pictures of little steam ships sailing around the lochs.
Your return trip from Gourock to Rothsey was 10 shillings, and six and sixpence if you left after 12 noon.That was in the early sixties so it would have been really cheap pre-war.
Cheerio
Linda
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| William R | Hi Linda, until you`ve been to Blackpool and watched the sea come over into Bank Hey St. you aint lived. Winter was the best time, I dare you to go on the prom when it really is BLOWING, you fair weather sun seekers. Didn`t the illuminations blow down with regularity, you knew it was Autumn then. Thanks for the nostalgia nudge about the Firth of Clyde. They were nearly all paddle steamers up there, but there was a beauty called "The Duchess of Montrose" a twin screw boat which took us up Loch Fyne to Inverary, whe we got there the Highland Games were finishing for the day and all the massed pipe bands were marching back over the bridge, with the Castle as a backdrop. One only, "magnificent". The names reel off - Largs Millport Dunoon the Kyles of Bute, Great cumbrae and little Cumbrae. To travel on the steamers in those days was heaven, eats on board, look at the engine room, at 14 yrs pretend you`re sailing the oceans,.the scenery, the fresh air. all in the pre-nuke subs. days. I think you could get a kind of day ticket and go all over the place. Memories for ever, Take care Linda, Bill. |
| Lady Griffin | The Duchess of Montrose was obviously a busy steamer plying the route to Inverary via the Kyles of Bute and what wonderful Scottish names the steamers had. the Duchess of Hamilton,Maid of Skelmorlie,Waverley.Happy memories for you Bill.
As for Blackpool what an amazing place it's been over the years of its historical development from a very insignificant beginning as a literal black pool draining from the marshes.
Only on my last visit did I find that sadly your Dr Beeching had closed the Central Railway Station.However my memories remain of the Derby Baths,where my mother took me in the hope I would learn to swim after a near death experience when a lad held my head under the
water while I was paddling happily minding my own business.Still hate water.
Dancing in the tower ballroom of course and the circus with the ritual flooding and lighting of the arena and the tableau at the finale.Charlie Cairoli -prince of clowns and of course Reginald Dixon who at one time played the organ at the New Victoria in Preston.My absolute favourite spot was the River Caves on the Golden Mile.Magic.My aunt worked at Jenkinsons near the tower making hand made chocolates.We always had magnificently decorated chocolate Easter eggs.
Linda |
| Lady Griffin | Oops Sorry.
Lead finger again. |
| William R | Hello Linda, your memories of Blackpool are very like mine. You need a Bank Loan to go in the Tower now. When I was a young hooligan in early 1940`s we used to go to B/pool on saturdays for 1/6d return from Leyland. All the Golden Mile was ours, Manchester Hotel, Tower Bar, slum it in Yates`s at Talbot Square. We used to compete with the Raf from Kirkham for a "lady" for the night. Yes, River Caves, Ghost Train anywhere that was short of light. I won`t say anything about "under the pier", we had a high old time. We used to rush up Talbot Road to North Statiion for the last train to Preston/Leyland. Always called in that pie shop near the station for a half baked pie, never to be finished. We used to tell the tut tutters on the train if they didn`t like us they should have caught an earlier train. We were the perfect BAD EXAMPLE., how dare we!!!! And now, I`d be the first to condemn them, these hooligans. Cheers Linda, Take care. William R aka Bill. |
| William R | Back again Forum, One weekend my wife and I went on the train to Fleetwood (when there used to be Boat Trains) and we were stood by the Clock Tower on the front watching the sunset. An elderly man came up and asked us if we were just visiting, we were, so he said to stand with him as we were going to see something not many people saw as it happened rarely. True enough, as the sun set on the horizon as a red ball, we could see the shapes of the mountains on the Isle of Man silhouetted there. He was able to say which hills were which, and when the sun had gone we thanked him, and he said we would never see it again. How did he know when the conditions were right? Idon`t know. He said he`d lived in Fleetwood all his life, so we benefitted from his knowledge. Regards from William R aka Bill. |
| Lady Griffin | What a great description of the sunset at Fleetwood,Bill- one of life's moments to remember and the salty fishy smell was wonderful.
I had a similar experience to you on my recent flight back home to Lancashire as the plane was low over the Persian Gulf when the sun started to rise and I watched it materialise into a huge reddish golden ball as I peeked through the shutters.
Everyone else was asleep and the hostess told me off for letting the light in.She had no soul- but at least I saw it.
Not quite such a hooligan as you Bill but I do recall the kiss me quick hats and with my mates looking for likely lads along the front and searching for Lobby Lud.There must have been many a poor man who was pursued because he fit the description- trilby and rolled up newspaper.My Grannie lived along Waterloo Rd near where the tram drivers stopped to change round the points with their long poles-quite a sight.
Am going to try hard not to post this twice.
Linda
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| William R | Another one for Forum. We used to get the bus from Leyland to Chorley on to Horwich, the walk to Viewpoint above the reservoirs at Rivington, at the top of the hill on the Anglezarke road. From there you can see the Lake District Hills and Cranes at Walney Island, pan left over the Lune estuary, Morecambe Bay, Ribble estuary, Southport and Formby, to Liverpool with the Clywddian Hills in Wales in the Distance. We were once up there when a man had a very large pair of binoculars mounted on a stand focussed on Walney, he let us look and we could just make out traffic moving on the island. Wonderful!!! The sunsets from Chorley Nab (gone I think) were outstanding on their day. Regards, Bill. |
| LDunlop76 | Bill - your post about Butlins reminded me of many things I'd forgotten - the lucky table, for instance! (We never won either!) Being a child when my family visited, I never experienced the evening entertainment. One of my most entertaining moments at Butlins (forget which camp) was at the camp which had a viewing window alongside the pool, which enabled you to see under the water. At age 6 or 7, I though it hilarious when a chap dived in and his trunks were forced down by the water - watching his gyrations to pull them back up! LOL! Happy days! |
| Lady Griffin | At least if there's one thing Television has done it's to keep alive experiences like those of the Holiday Camps especially in" Hi de Hi" which is so true to the real atmosphere.Loved the one about the view underwater.Many many years ago like about 40 we met a chap in New Zealand who had gone over to UK in an effort to introduce harness horse racing .He said he set up a racing track at or near one of the Butlins holiday camps maybe in Wales.Don't know if it lasted long.
Great day in Auckland yesterday at the beginning of the yacht racing series for the Louis Vuitton Cup to decide the challenger to New Zealand in the Americas Cup.All this goes on for months.
Noisy parades along Queen Street to the Viaduct Basin ,the introduction to the crowds of the teams including the British and French entries, balloons and flags aplenty, and moving tributes to Sir Peter Blake who did so much for the event by Sir Edmund Hillary. |
| Caroline | I went to Butlin's Pwhelli (?) around the age of 12 and remember the said viewing window- a large crowd of men had formed one time, and we saw that a lady was swimming round unaware that the top of her costume had come undone and was floating round her waist......
I learned to swim at Derby Baths, after we'd been in long enough we used up
all the hot water playing in the showers, then ate Tuna butties in the ' Spectators' bit.
Didn't the lovely Noah's Ark on the Pleasure beach burn down?
Chorley Nab was still there a few months ago.. you also get lovely views from Great Hill. I often go 'Up Anglezarke' when I'm home, nothing has changed much, except far more people with cars, so you have to choose a quiet day . Rivington barn is still popular, and the bikers congregate on Sundays in front of the building, showing off their machines. |
| William R | Hi Caroline, Pwhelli, that was it, the most popular snack bar I ever knew was by the big windows. You could never get a seat there, could you? Did the swimmers and divers not know that there were windows there? Cheers Bill. |
| Caroline | My parents had a motorbike and sidecar in the fifties so we were able to get out a bit , places for a day like the Trough, Dales, and Tarn Hows. Summer holidays were spent near Hastings or in Devon, usually in a caravan, and I remember a weekend in Scarborough where we also saw Geoff Duke(?)race. There were a lot of very small men in Scarborough, we wondered why, then noticed that 'Snow White' was playing at the local Theatre..... |
| LDunlop76 | Sitting here, smiling that so many of us remember that viewing window at the pool! I wonder how many red faces there were on finding out that everyone had been able to see their bare bum/boobs?
Did anyone else ever holiday in Morecambe? There was a place called Happy Valley Park which had illuminations - not on Blackpool's scale, but very pretty all the same. I remember being taken out to Sunderland Point while we were up there and seeing what I think was called Black Sambo's Grave (very politically incorrect, but it dated from the slave trade era). I can remember crying to hear the tale of how this slave had pined away, but I can also remember being worried about getting back in time because the road was submerged at high tide. (Yeah, like Dad would have gone there without consulting the tide table, but when you're only 9.......!!) |
| William R | I remember going to Morecambe Lights, isn`t it Happy Mount Park where you walk round the lights following a footpath. Everything was at ground level, all little tableaux, nursery rhymes etc. We were going to miss the train back to Leyland so got one of those horse drawn landaus back to the station. Why is it always cold at Morecambe? and is it true that they stand tailors dummies in the bus shelters along Bare promenade to make it look busy.Cheers Bill. |
| Lady Griffin | Lost a reply or two somewhere in cyberspace.I do hope my original attempts don't surface as you'll get three versions of the same thing.Apologies if they do.
Think I remember dummies in strategic places in Blackpool sitting in tram shelters along the front.Not sure if they were meant to advertise the poor man's version of Tussauds which was well worth visiting especially the gory bits.Certainly do remember the Manchester to Blackpool walkers.
There was so much rivalry between Morecambe and Blackpool for the crowds but Blackpool always did things on such a grandiose scale.The South Shore Baths were meant to be the largest open air baths in the World at one time but maybe that too was a beat up.They were modelled on the lines of the Colosseum.One entrepreneur offered a large amount of money to anyone who could capture Nessie so she?? could be displayed on the front-a fairly safe bet.
Some of the early introductions were not universally popular as in the case of the tram lines which upset cyclists and led to protests that their wheels would get caught in the tracks.It was a bit like the dangers of Stiletto heels getting fast in drains in the 40's and having to hobble home on one shoe.
There was a real art to getting changed behind a tiny towel on the sands and Mr Bean did a great skit on it.No-one seemed to worry about a bit of exposure and as the Lancashire mill workers were almost at rioting point after a year in the factories it didn't seem to matter.
For all that it seemed so huge in early days Blackpool looked so small when I last visited.
I envy everyone now being able to get to Europe so much more easily.
Greece and Italy sound so inviting.Hope to get there one day.
Linda
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| William R | As part of our training at Leylands, all apprentices were "invited" to go to the open-air baths at St.Annes. I remember one Friday evening we were all in the water when it started to rain. Everyone got out of the water and sheltered round the outside to avoid getting wet.I never did understand why, because when it stopped raining we were ordered back into the water and of course got wet. It still puzzles me. Cheers Bill. |
| Caroline | linda, your Dad would've liked to have been stranded by the tide at the Globe Hotel on the way to Sunderland point, perhaps! according to my ' Twenty Miles Around Morecambe Bay' , price 15 New Pence- I knew it would come in useful sometime- 'Sambo was left at Sunderland while his master went on to Lancaster in the year 1736, and the poor fellow, thinking that he had been deserted, refused to touch any food and died of a broken heart before his master returned' Well, he must've been gone a long time, and couldn't anyone going that way have taken a message?
I heard Morecambe was having a bit of a Renaissance due to Eric Morecambe's statue. It's usually windy there, but Blackpool doesn't have the grandeur of the Lakes rising in the distance.
We used to go with mum and Dad to St. Anne's open air pool, I remember seeing a beauty contest when we were there once.
As schoolgirls we sometimes cycled from Leyland to Southport Baths, a nice flat ride down Southport road which had a cycle lane, past all the stalls selling produce from the market gardens.The last time I looked at the Baths they were deserted and in bad repair, grass growing everywhere, but a lovely thirties building still . I expect 'they' have knocked them down now........and now someone will tell me that they were always an eyesore, which sometimes happens when I defend old buildings on this site! |
| noel | I used to camp at Heysham nearby with my then girl-friend now my wife of 32 years. Used to pretend we were married then, even bought her a pretend gold ring from Woolies for £1 . When it came to going home after a week realised my suit trousers had gone missing. In those days you wore a suit at least I did when you went out. I remember a cafe on the front that always had a huge tray containg meat and potato pie. Usually quarter of it was missing. It always looked so good and I could never afford any. Vowed one day I would go back and treat my wife to a portion. Then I thought well why can't she buy her own. When I suggested this to her , well won't go into that. |
| rocketmanjohn | Reply to Caroline
"My parents had a motorbike and sidecar in the fifties so we were able to get out a bit , places for a day like the Trough, Dales, and Tarn Hows."
My first mode of transport was a motor bike and sidecar. It was an ancient monster sidecar hauled by a Panther 600 of suspect vintage. I paid a fiver for it including jacket, helmet and gauntlets, this sound ridiculously cheap but as an apprentice at the time, it was a weeks pay.
We also went everywhere on it, as did a lot of other people on theirs. The 'mini' finished all of that.
Geoff Duke, by the way, was the best in the world at the time, he's now on the Isle Of Man running a video company.
We visited Morecambe last time back home, a good friend lives next door in Overton and he took us round. It really is nice and we spent a most pleasant day.
John |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by William R
I remember going to Morecambe Lights, isn`t it Happy Mount Park where you walk round the lights following a footpath. Everything was at ground level, all little tableaux, nursery rhymes etc. Cheers Bill.
Yes, you are right, Bill - it is Happy Mount Park - your memory's better than mine! I remember enjoying it - probably because we got to stay up late to see it after dark! [;)]
Thanks for the info about Sambo, Caroline - you were right to keep that booklet! [:)] |
| Lady Griffin | Some great stories here and so sad about Sambo. Thanks all for the memories everyone.So often we throw out old books and pamphlets to be regretted much later.
Have just re- read Dame Thora Hird's autobiographies containing many recollections of her early days in Morecambe.Such a wonderful lady.
All I can remember about Morecambe is the endless walk across the sands to Heysham Head?.I must have been about 5 years old.
My Dad had a motor bike and sidecar too and he and mum with us kids even ventured into Yorkshire as well.All I can remember about that is seeing the circles of boulders set up to train the ponies.
Cheerio
Linda |
| Caroline | John, Linda, nice memories, Dad's bike was a Gold Flash , first one was a Rudge . He made the sidecar from small flat bits of metal which seemed to appear from his raincoat on his return from work! Still has photos of its construction in our garage, bits of holly stuck on at Christmas etc. If we ever broke down, other folk used to stop and help.
We were on the tops above Hawes one time, I was pillion and Mum and my little sister were in the sidecar, when the tyre burst . Hobbled into Hawes, the garage was shut. Dad only had ten bob on him, and was about to book us into the local inn and hitch back to Leyland to get more cash, when some local farmers overheard and one reckoned he had a tyre that might fit up at the farm.... it did!
Heysham's still quite pretty, despite the power station. Has anyone seen the ancient rock-cut graves on the headland? There's also a Viking 'hog-back' tombstone in the church, nicely carved with deer etc.
We went out also to Glasson Dock, still a popular place. I nearly let the water out of the dock one time by swinging on a horizontal pole, which suddenly took off of its own accord, spinning round and opening the lock gates, till my Dad and his friend stopped it . A story that he's embarrassed me with for around 45 years....... |
| Lady Griffin | Hi Folks-am having an absolutely wonderful time here in the Antipodes reading all your stories-not getting much work done but what the heck!Who was it said 'there's no point in work unless it absorbs you' All very well but-----
Too young to take much notice at the time of names of bikes etc but Sunbeam Talbot springs to mind.My Dad in his early years did a lot of motor bike scrambling and, Noel, at his funeral service it came to light that he had a shed? old building, right across from St James' Council School and Church in Lostock Hall at the end of Moss Lane where he and his brother built up motor bikes from bits.Long before the war.
Keep up the memories.
Linda |
| William R | All this talk about motorbikes reminds me that in 1951 I bought a Cyclemaster "back wheel engine" for my push bike. It was 36cc capacity and would get up to 30mph (downhill). It got me to work alright but when you came to a hill you had to pedal like ........ to get up. Where are you now R.T.J.419? Regards Bill. |
| noel | quote:
Originally posted by William R
All this talk about motorbikes reminds me that in 1951 I bought a Cyclemaster "back wheel engine" for my push bike. It was 36cc capacity and would get up to 30mph (downhill). It got me to work alright but when you came to a hill you had to pedal like ........ to get up. Where are you now R.T.J.419? Regards Bill.
So that's what they were called. I remember them well, one lad in School St. bought one , he looked so posh at the time scooting along. I guess the french pop pop bikes are the closest to them now. They peddle like fury on them going up hill. |
| noel | quote:
Originally posted by Lady Griffin
ell but-----
Too young to take much notice at the time of names of bikes etc but Sunbeam Talbot springs to mind.My Dad in his early years did a lot of motor bike scrambling and, Noel, at his funeral service it came to light that he had a shed? old building, right across from St James' Council School and Church in Lostock Hall at the end of Moss Lane where he and his brother built up motor bikes from bits.Long before the war.
Keep up the memories.
Linda
There's still a shed there Linda but it's grown into a big shed now and every day you can see the lights from welding torches. Think they make storage tanks of some description. |
| rocketmanjohn | I remember that the 'Cyclemaster', which I think was built by BSA, was known as 'Stinkwheel',for the amount of blue smoke it poured out.This was caused by the use of ordinary motor oil in the fuel, the mixing of which was never very good, hence the blue smoke. It was a clever design, but underpowered, and the NSU 'Quickly' soon showed the way. That, and the introduction of 2 Stroke oil.
John |
| William R | Sorry about the pollution John, when I bought it I was given a gallon of "special oil", I think it was Petrol and SAE20 with a bit of Redex. I didn`t notice the smoke, because I was most likely praying that it kept going, and anyway it was behind. The big snag was if it oiled up and you decided to keep going, you had to pedal, and they were very low geared. You welcomed every downhill for a freewheeling rest. When I was east of India at the ratepayers expense, we had some Sexton S.P`s (and Priests) and they really smoked on start-up. They were Pratt and Whitney radials, and if they had been stood a while you had to manually turn them two full revolutions by hand to clear the oil from the lower cylinders,then hand start them on inertia starters, by then you didn`t care about the smoke. Just a quiet prayer of thanks to P&W that it started!! Sorry for going on, Cheers, Bill. |
| Lady Griffin | All very technical chaps but fascinating stuff.Don't stop.Have checked and my Dad had an AJS, and Sunbeam later on.Although in later times he seldom strayed far from home I remember he always went to the TT races in the I.O.M. and brought me my first pair of silk stockings from there.
The bicycle was fine for getting away but the mo bike and sidecar really began to expand the horizons for the working man .That and the Charabanc trips -great for getting about the country and the odd fleeting romance.
Linda |
| anacortesdamp | There were two other reasons the Cyclemaster smoked so bad. The first one was that it had a piston with no rings, like a model airplane engine. I think it was made from lignum vitae, a very hard wood. The second was that, to keep piston and cylinder wear down, they used a high oil content in the mix (8:1, I think).
Even after the advent of 2-stroke oil, there were still a lot of smokers. I had a 1960 Ariel Leader. It used a 16:1 mix and put out a lot of smoke at wide throttle openings. It used to clog up the baffles in the silencers. I inquired of Ariel if I could use caustic soda to clean them out and their reply was "yes, and by the way you can go to a 48:1 oil ratio too." Apparently, they had settled on the heavier mix because they didn't have the resources to do the endurance testing to see if less was ok - they relied on their customers to do it!
Frank Damp
Anacortes, WA |
| William R | I think that the early models of Cyclemaster were 28cc or about that, mine was 36cc and had a detachable cylinder barrel and an aluminium piston group with two piston rings, (don`t fidle, very fragile) the rings were stepped joints, tho` one I had was fitted with square ends and anti-rotation pins. The assemblies were cheap to replace, as the barrels soon developed steps. There were some types which ran on the back tyre by a diablo shaped roller, but never had one of those. The Cyclemaster being contained within the back wheel was a marvel of minitiarisation(?) in those days, I wonder why they died out? Lignum Vitae pistons? Thats a heavy subject. Regards, Bill. |
| Caroline | I was off down Holiday Memory Lane and ended up in an Engineering Works, motorcycle division........They still sell the 'Solex' over here, with the motor on the front wheel, very nice machine and cheap.
Holidays! As soon as the first bits of motorway were built, we young ladies started hitchiking, often to London , on a regular basis, to get away from Leyland. There was no MOT then, and some of the lorries that picked us up were from the 1930s, averaging 30mph.
Sometimes we'd just go to Manchester , Liverpool, or Blackpool for a paddle, or simply hitch to Fortés Caff for a coffee- desperate times! |
| William R | Hello Caroline, Sorry, got carried away!!! Cheers, Bill. |
| Lady Griffin | You were daring Caroline to hitch hike.
Afraid I was born too soon before the days of real liberation for women.My dad used to stand at the gate watching for me to get home whenever I was allowed to go out.Boy friends had to say their farewells well out of sight.
Had never even been to London until came home from NZ in 1988 over 30 years after I left.
Had a wonderful time wandering round the city -so much history to absorb.
Luckily I had a friend caretaking a block of offices in St James'St with an apartment for visitors so I stayed there and just walked for hours.
Enjoyed the techo stuff chaps.Have been proof reading projects by Asian Engineering students at Auckland University so am getting more knowledgeable about nuts and bolts.
Cheerio for now |
| William R | Lady G, I like the comments about getting technical.... don`t ever ask me how paper is made, the Forum aint big enough, but thats another story!! Cheers,Bill. |
| William R | Hello Forum, I`ll try to get back to Holiday Times Past with a bit of nostalgia (Oh No, I hear you cry). Lets start with the Wakes Weeks when whole streets and communities migrated to Blackpool from Bolton, Wigan and all the other cotton towns. All the holiday trains came down the slow line towards Leyland station, and always "held" at the signals by the railway crossing know locally as The Forty Steps, joining Denford Avenue with Bent Lane. We always gathered by the signals and along the railway banking where the trains waited. Holiday makers were always in a generous mood and were asking "Where are we?" we told them and were rewarded with bars of chocolate, toffees, cakes. I remember one time when a lady leaned out and asked us to deliver a rolled up newspaper to a house in Denford Avenue, we were well rewarded for this. When the train had gone we used to pool all we had got from them, and waited for the next one coming down the line. There would possibly be ten or so between ten and twelve o`clock, and this was for about six weeks of Wakes Holidays. They never stopped on the way back to the Cotton Towns so we never got any Blackpool Rock! Sometimes the engine drivers used to throw a big piece of coal to us, with "Take that home to yer Mam," generous indeed.. The year? about 1935/6. Cheers, Bill. |
| brian | I was the proud owner of a Cyclemaster when I was 16 years old in 1961 or 1962. It was grey and 28cc. I remember frequently having to clean the spark plug which was always very black except when I used Jet petrol and it was an ash white colour. With ordinary petrol I could achieve 30 mph on a flat road but with Jet petrol I got 33mph. There was a man at Moss Side who repaired them in a garden shed and I spent many evenings in that shed talking motor bikes with lots of others who congregated there.
Brian |
| Caroline | Bill, Mum remembers them throwing out coal from the trains, but not the treats. And sliding down the bannister at the Forty Steps.( She reckons there weren't really forty) I wonder if there's anything left of them, I used to go there myself.
Going down to London meant we could buy clothes and be ahead of the fashions in the shops upt'North, as the big trendy clothing chains hadn't arrived yet! |
| William R | Hello Martin, I don`t know where this one fits so I`ve put it to "Open", its a bit of thinking back. Can anyone remember at the beginning of the war on Sunday night at 9pm the radio used to play the National Anthems of all the Allied nations, we used to listen to them. Then the Russians joined in, and the National Anthems stopped because the Russian one was The Internationalle, and it was somehow forbidden to play it. The Russians very shortly afterwards introduced a new anthem "Unbreakable Union etc", the BBC began playing the anthems again, I`m sure I`ve got it right. We remember the V sign as well, and the messages in code to the Continent, just like in the wartime films we see now, Anyway, it was just a thought, someone may remember. Cheers, Bill. |
| anacortesdamp | Caroline:
There were a lot more than forty steps, probably closer to 75 down and the same number back up the other side.
American acquaintances find it hard to believe that we had grade crossings for pedestrians where trains were doing better than 80 mph, without headlights! I find it a bit incredible myself! I remember going home from Grandma's on winter evenings, across the foot crossing at what is now Hargreaves Avenue and listening VERY carefully for approaching trains. Those coming from Wigan towards Preston were the most dangerous.
Bill:
I guess Forty Steps is no more. Maybe my brother can remember when it was closed. Certainly, the crossing at the blind end of Hargreaves Avenue was replaced by "Howe's Mound" during the time we lived at number 29. I think the 40-steps crossing diasppeared about the same time, maybe about 1965?
Regarding old time holidays, Bill, I remember going to St. Annes for our "Wakes week". We used to hire a Singleton's taxi to take us from home to "Mrs. Burt's" boarding house. It was just on the Blackpool side of the main intersection in St. Annes, right across from the entrance to the park. I think we went as a family in '47, '48 and '49.
I think the taxi's normal duty was funerals. It was a long-wheelbase Austin 16, with jump seats aft of the glass divider. One year we arrived in St. Annes ealier than the recognized check-in time, maybe because there was a funeral in the afternoon!.
We left the luggage at the boarding house and headed for the beach. Within 5 minutes, I stepped on the base of a broken beer bottle and needed about 7 stitches in the bottom of my foot. The rest of the week, I was the star attraction at the boarding house in my wheelchair. The price was paid when Dr. Cank took out the stitches at home a couple of weeks later!
Nowadays, when we're not coming over to England, we go on holiday in a motorhome. We have a 26 ft MH, a 1985 model, with a 7.5 litre engine. It only gets about 7 miles to a US gallon (I'm trying to make that better), but we don't have to put our two Labradors in boarding kennels at 30 quid a day.
It's fun wandering around, even when we only do about 125 miles a day. There's so much to see in Washington, British Columbia and Oregon, I figure another three years before we venture further afield.
For anyone who wants to visit a scenically incredible part of the world with a climate like Cornwall, give Washington a try. The scenery is like a combination of Switzerland and Norway. It's easy to reach from Manchester, with direct flights to either Seattle or Vancouver BC. We told one visitor that the area was "very pretty". She accused us of lying. She said "the South Downs are pretty - this is absolutely magnificent".
Frank Damp
Anacortes, WA, USA |
| LDunlop76 | Frank writes "listening VERY carefully for approaching trains. Those coming from Wigan towards Preston were the most dangerous."
Well, anything coming from Wigan is a bit risky! [;)] |
| William R | Hello Martin, Possibly Peter may find a spot for this in his collection of small pieces, form the days before cars, television and just post-war. Newly married we decided to have a day of our annual holiday on a day trip down the coast of North Wales.. It started with a smart walk to Leyland Station to get a train to Wigan, change at Wigan North western to the low level station for the Manchester to Liverpool train.(There were plenty of trains in those days. Once at Liverpool, I can`t remember whether it was Exchange or the other, it was a very quick walk down to the Pier Head to catch the St.Tudno boat. The sail was down the Mersey to the Mersey Bar and the open sea, then going very leisurely down the coast in sight of land, they were lovely views from the sea. The boat called at Llandudno to let some passengers off, and pick some up, then onwards down the coast to the Menai Straits stopping at Beaumaris. We were allowed about one and a half hours ashore to see the place and get something to eat, before going back on the return sail. Finally we would arrive at the Pier Head and begin the mad rush to get the trains to Wigan and then Leyland. The final walk home from the station was a time to recall all that had gone by since the early morning walk, truly a day to remember before motorways and rapid transport which we have today. The catering on the boat was very good considering it was just after the end of Rationing, but still in a period of austerity. Memories..... Cheers, Bill. |
| rocketmanjohn | The other steamers on the Menai Bridge run were, St Ceriol and St Trilo, pardon my Welsh spelling. I think there may have been a fourth. I used to stay at my Aunts in Menai and loved to watch the steamers struggling against the current. HMS Conway was anchored at Menai Bridge and used as a Royal Navy training ship. The Conway was one of Nelsons ships, I believe, and was burned out in the 1960's. Not really Leyland stuff, but good memories.
John
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| Caroline | My aunt and uncle, plus children, used to CYCLE to Wales from Leyland for their annual camping holiday. I think he was in good trim from cycling to and from the nursery on Yewlands Drive where he was caretaker.
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| William R | Hi Caroline, You`ve started an interesting thread on cycling to Wales for a holiday. Me and Fred Pritchard (lost track of him) used to leave work at Leylands on Friday night heading to Wigan, Warrington to stop at Delamere Forest Youth Hostel near Tarporley in Cheshire. Males were housed in a converted hen house, girls were in a dorm in the main house. Do your own cooking over a Primus stove (very basic) and do your mandatory "task" before the Warden gave you your Membership Card back duly stamped. We had very basic road maps and took emergency ration cards, which were not much use to except as means of identification with our Identity Cards. We used to get as far as Conway Valley where I had an aunt, good meal and make our way back. We used to stop at a shack near Holywell on the way back and pay 1/6d for a night. Accomodation was on old armchairs or sofas with water for a wash. Visited at night by local police checking who was stopping there and why, were we vagrants? Back home in Leyland Sunday night, Fred lived by the river at Penwortham. there were no road signs, army trucks all over, Military Police checking on you wherever you went. Those were the days, or were they? Cheers, Bill. |
| Alan Marsden | Hi William R , I remember the YHA hostel at Delamere Forrest, it was just as you descibed it. We (a group of 3 or 4 cyclists) from Preston went thru Knutsford to Macclesfield an on to the Chapel en Le Frith road to a YHA hostel named Windgather Rocks out in the wilds on top of a hill in the Peak district. Then another days pedalling down to the Lichfield YHA and a walk around city taking in the Cathedral. North next, a full day of pedalling in the rain, yellow oilskin and sae western keeping the body and head dry but the legs and feet were soaking as the passing motorvehicles threw up the spray, pushing down the pedals re directed the cold water from beneath ones foot between the toes and out of the laceholes ! Into the drying room at Delaware, a hot supper,bunk bed for the night,flatten the tin cans ,everyone had chores at the YHA, and another day in the pouring rain back to Preston. Shortly after, stood at the front of the class explaining the merits of a cycling and hostelling holiday, one realised most 11 year olds had not ventured far at all , perhaps they were more sensible !
Alan M
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| William R | Hi Allan, Memories..... Used to go all over the place with a buddy called Fred Pritchard, who used to liove in Ardee Road, just over the River Ribble at Penwortham. The usual drill was to leave right after work at Leylands and go to Delamere Forest Hostel via Wigan and Warrington. I remember the lady hostellers could sleep in the house whilst we "tough males" had to sleep in the converted hen cabin outside. As you say, the chores had to be done before yopu got your card back, to leave the place clean for the next travellers. Our longest trip was about 1943 when we went down to the South Coast stopping at various hostels on the way, memory fails here but I recall Ludlow as one, and Batheaston. This one spoiled the picture, the hostellers were segregated from those who came by car for a cheap weekend, I remember the notice on the wall "Here lies the body of Willy Doom, he wore hobnailed boots in the Common Room". This particular Common Room was being used by the weekend Hostellers (in cars) for their weekly dance. No real hostellers were allowed in, it lowered the tone. Never went back. Its worth a mention in these days of Motorways and travel, that there were no signposts to tell the way, you navigated by the sun and by asking ther locals, (in the Pub). We actually did 1100 miles that week and ended up in a restricted area near Saffron Walden, and were "escorted" from the area by American Military Police, fully armed, to a safe area. We did get some chocolates and biscuits from them, which softened the blow. It was back to work on the Monmday morning, still in cycling gear, to do 12 hour shifts. Lost contact with Fred many years ago, last heard of at Abadan and Kuwait oilfields. Interesting ti hear that someone else lived on the road as we did, there was little else for us. Cheers, William R. |
| William R | Sorry for the terrible typing, I never was good at it, must try harder. W.R. |
| Bill Rigby | I just read this thread, William R, and your initial post last October struck a resonant chord. I remember my folks taking us to Liverpool for the boat to Llandudno several times. Perhaps it was a well known 'outing' from Leyland? I cannot recall the route to get there as you can. I only thought about those days on the briny - to me as a kid it was like an ocean liner! - the other day, in writing a memoir. When I read your input my first thought was, well! there's a coincidence. |
| William R | Bill, Bit of nostalgia, Lady G and me were in York at the National Railway Museum, and looking round the exhibits in the Warehouse Section saw a nameplate for the Liverpool Overhead Railway - now THERE is a subject from before the war, of going from Leyland to travel on the Overhead towards Seaforth Sands and seeing all the boats tied up in the Docks going to far-off places. Sadly its no more, but what memories it evokes! If you`ve never had the chance to visit the Museum, try it, and whats more, its free entry. William R. |
| Bill Rigby | As a matter of fact, William R, I was in Liverpool year before last and visited the old, done up docks and warehouses. Reminded me of Baltimore, MD, where they have also utilized the old buildings for new purposes in a similar way.
I used to live in Ainsdale and when I did my militray service passed through Liverpool every weekend on my way from Padgate to go home. I walked from the old Cheshire Lines station, demolished years ago, to Exchange to get the electric train.
I often spent a Saturday getting off the Southport to Liverpool trains at, I think, Litherland, to take the overhead. It was always exciting to see what ships were in, almost brushing by them on the train.
For years, whenever I was in the north, I would trot off to Liverpool to have a look around and recapture the past a little, but it got very dilapidated looking and more graffiti on public buildings than on a NY subway train. It also seemed always to rain and on one visit I found it so depressing, I swore never to return. However, I did two years ago for the first time in years.
I once canvassed in a general election on Scotland Road for a local candidate who I can assure you was decidedly not a Tory! It was quite an experince allowing me to see the inside of houses that equalled anything in a third world country; front rooms with old car seats and orange boxes for furniture in dingy streets where ragged kids played. Usually, and it struck me forcibly, the most miserable places were inhabited by householders who aggressively told me where to go insofar as most were staunch conservatives! |
| Alan Marsden | William R.- interesting that you were at Leyland Motors during your cycling days. As a youngster,I was introduced to cycling by a gentleman named Henry Cookson , he lived on 'our block',in Shelley Rd. Preston, and worked at Leyland Motors. Henry hated the work he did and lived for the weekends and the outdoors. He was an interesting man, as a boy his strict father had determined that he should become a Roman Catholic priest. This was not for Henry and he ran away to Liverpool, joined a ship and sailed the seven seas. I well recall his description of 'rounding the Horn', he would lash himself to the mast so as not be swept overboard, this was of course in the days of sail! Henry's home was filled with pictures of sailing ships and memorabelia from all over the world. Henry and his wife would 'be off' each weekend, on their tandem. On becoming a widower and having no family, Henry eventually began taking 2 or 3 youngsters cycling each weekend. Each Sunday we would be off somewhere,Fylde, Arnside,Ingleton, Skipton,Yorkshire dales,Haworth,etc. Holiday times would take us farther afield, Derbyshire,Lichfield, Cheshire,to YHA and CTC touring,Settle and over the hills to Kettlewell YHA, was a favourite. On one occasion we took tents and after hostelling at Kettlewell we continued to Grassington, Skipton and Bolton Abbey in the pouring rain. About one mile along the A59 Blubberhouse road from Bolton Bridge, on the right was a narrow stoned walled road leading to Beamsley. Here,to the left, on a hillside near the stream we set up camp, cycling further ,Ilkley,Otley,Harrogate ,Knaresborough. One evening we return to the tents and the cows had demolished everything. Henry saved the day, he arranged with the farmer (his drinking partner at the Devonshire Arms),that we should live in the barn and sleep in the hayloft above the barn which was integral with the farmhouse. A diversion of the stream ran behind the building then beneath it and out the front of the barn and in doing so drove a mammoth waterwheel which was inside the barn and in times past had driven the machinery of the mill. The waterwheel was accessed from the cobbled yard by a small door and was not visible from the exterior of the building. Just prior to becoming our refuge, the barn/workshop had been used by an undertaker, this was apparent observing the multitude of unfinished coffins lying about . In the hayloft above the workshop and waterwheel, one rested in an improvised grey flannel sleeping bag secured with safety pins, upon the straw. The hayloft provided a comfortable night sleep except for being awakened when the rats crawled over ones body ! This was intolerable,so,from a Skipton hardware shop we aquired a large rat trap, which had a trap door. Aniseed laden bread was the lure. From the same hardware shop we also bought a new frying pan, so it was no surprise when people asked if we intended cooking our catch !
In the darkness of the night, sat upon the coffins,we could hear and feel the occasional rat creep over ones feet and see their reflected eyes as they approached the lure from the yard, often we would strike with our clubs and usually miss ,sending them scurring, until the quiet returned. Morning after morning brought cagefulls of heaving rats, the cage was then lowered by rope into the stream untill they drowned !
The Beamsley farmhouse became our regular haunt after school on a Friday, we would cycle there arriving at dusk. The rat population seemed henceforth depleted! Mid afternoon Sunday we would depart and after a pint of tea in Gisburn pedal through waddington and Longridge and home to a hot pot supper for all ,complete with crust and pickles! Happy days !!
Alan M.
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| William R | Hi Allan, Shelley Road!!!!! I used to be very friendly with Arnold Cookson, who was working at Leylands when I was, his brother Dick (was it?) also worked with me in the North Works Tool Room. Now if memory serves me right, didn`t they have a sister? If you lived in Shelley Road, you`d know her. Didn`t their father Joe, drive for Leylands.? Shelley Road Mill rings a bell with me too.!! William R. |
| LDunlop76 | Alan, my skin is now crawling, all that talk of rats! LOL! |
| Karen | Hi Alan,
That's Shelley Road Preston?
My cousins Freda, Ken, and Eric Welsby were raised in Shelley Road.
Ciao Karen. |
| William R | Hi Karen, Did you know the Cooksons of my previous postings??? William R. |
| Karen | Sorry William R. I didn't know the Cooksons .. just my cousins.
I lived in Leyland and didn't get to 'play out' when we were visiting the family!!
My father worked at Leyland motors .. South Works ... then at
'The Tank Factory'.
He was a tinsmith ... Fred Elcock.
His buddies were Les Watkinson, Alf Bannister, Bill Holden and two younger ones .. Tommy Wolstenholme (can be seen in the Farington books by Joan Langford) and Jack Charnock ... Andrew (started the Montreal Leyland Motors) Charnock's younger brother.
Anyone remember any of those guys?
I think the pc name for tinsmith is .. Sheet Metal Worker ... but it's such a long title to write!!
Ciao Karen.
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| Lady Griffin | Or Metal' basher' as it was known in some quarters.
LG |
| Alan Marsden | William, sorry I cannot remember the Cooksons that you quote, but Arnold Cookson sort of semi rings a bell. I lived at the first house just north of Blackpool Rd, on Shelley, the back garden went down to the canal. During the war we had an Anderton air raid shelter, it was semi underground and dad had built a garden over it, access was thru a sand bagged restricted entrance. When the air raid sirens sounded we used to go to it, close the door ,play games and sleep, we had paraffin lamps and heating stove, it was quite cozy,and we had "barley sugars "too !
I had a relative who lived farther south on Shelley Rd. named Jack Wilson, also friends around there were Maurice Dean, Trevor Cocker,Jimmy Cook and the Jacksons in Balcarres Rd.
Alan M |