| Flouride |
| Martin | quote:
Fluoride: If you want it
FLUORIDE could soon be added to tap water in Chorley and South Ribble households if the public demand it.
Government ministers have voted to give the go-ahead to add fluoride to the UK's water supplies, believing it will fight tooth decay and iron out dental health inequalities between rich and poor areas.
The government has endorsed research by the Medical Research Council which found no evidence supporting claims that fluoride can have detrimental effects on the human immune system, on the reproductive system or on child development.
Labour's new Water Bill could pave the way for widespread fluoridation by allowing local health authorities to decide, after public consultation, whether to add fluoride to their water supplies.
[url]http://www.leylandtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=77&ArticleID=700858[/url]
I'm no expert on these matters. Would you like to see Flouride added to the water supply or do you think we already have too many chemicals in our food and drink? |
| LDunlop76 | My brother told me last night that he'd been to the dentist recently for the first time in 15 years (Shame on him!) and only needed a scale and polish. Hopefully you'll be equally as jammy, Lady G! |
| William R | I`m not a water expert either, Martin, why are the shops full of bottles of water? Adding fluoride will only increase its sale, seem to be a modern thing, walking around drinking out of a bottle of water here. Still got some of my teeth, and never been a favourite of water as a drink. W.R. |
| anacortesdamp | William:
According to the American model, most Brits are seriously dehydrated. The standard here is to drink 64 fluid ounces of water per day! You tend to spend quite a lot of your day in the loo.
My take on fluoride is that the fluoridated toothpastes and the treatment at your annual check-up (you do have an annual dental exam, right?) are enough, but it would make a lot more sense to add it to sweets (candies), since that's what triggers most dental caries. Putting fluoride in what you use in the washer and flush down the loo seems a bit wasteful.
On the other hand, it has been shown to be very effective in improving dental health. I thought the whole of Lancashire had been adding it for eons. I was certainly under the impression that Leyland started doing so back in the early 60s. Since my wife was in the dental service, I'm sure I'd remember if we didn't have it. It was all the rage in England then.
Frank Damp |
| William R | Frank, Dental check every six months here, fail to go and you are struck off the List. The Dentist takes an Examination Fee each time and is loathe to remove any teeth, because he loses a source of revenue. Free Dental treatment - only if you are receiving Income Support or some of the other handouts. I agree that Fluoride could be added at the point of use, sweets etc, but the do-gooders would have a field-day with that, taking away freedom to choose. My grandchildren have suffered for years with decay due to "healthy" orange juice (dilute to taste), which requires constant treatment by the dentist, for which he gets a fee from the NHS. Do I detect that dentists would be in the front rank objecting to the addition of fluoride, because of the loss of revenue? Sorry, Linda D, its only my opinion! William R. |
| LDunlop76 | William, no - dentists are all for fluoride added to the water supply. There will still be plenty of work! The North-West has an appalling dental health record - only deprived parts of Scotland have a higher decay rate than the area I work in. BTW, you will not be struck off an NHS dentist's list if you miss a 6 monthly check up - you are registered with that dentist so long as you attend at least every 15 months - but that only applies to the NHS, not private dentists.
Frank, as far as I know (having spent over 20 years in public health dentistry) the only area in the North West to have fluoridated water is the Leighton area of Crewe. It is added to water, rather than foods, because it's the most cost effective method. Fluoride toothpastes reduce decay by about 25%, but fluoridated water reduces it by 50%. My worry would be that modern children don't actually seem to consume much tap water, living off cola and Sunny D instead. Fluoride would not be added to bottled water - much of it is spring water and cannot have chemical additions or would not be "pure from the source" - however, one or two have quite high natural levels of fluoride anyway.
As to dentists repairing children's teeth, the NHS fee for restoring deciduous teeth is so paltry that more than a few dentists don't bother. Supervised neglect, it's called. I see the results when I do school screening - then we get the irate mothers calling in to ask why little Johnny got a letter when he was only at their own dentist a fortnight earlier and he never said anything about any decayed teeth. [V] Bravo to any NHS dentist who is repairing decayed deciduous teeth as the current fee doesn't cover the practice running costs, let alone give the dentist any profit. Luckily I am salaried, so I have the luxury of providing the treatment needed without worrying whether it will put me in the red!
My department sees over 30 children every week for general anaesthetic (a major and potentially life-threatening experience) and extraction of an average of 5 or 6 teeth a piece. Bring on the fluoride, I say! |
| William R | Hi Linda D, Thanks for a good write-up, I didn`t mean to run down the service, `twas just an opinion. The water here is taken from the River Trent at Elvington and is reputed to be very good, (makes good Tea, as you know). The treatment plant is open to the public at times and is worth a visit to see the trouble they go to to ensure the quality. I can only speak from experience of my dentist, who restored my faith in the service, post Grundy. He had just set up in practice and is now most respected. No more for now Linda, am eating the humble pie with the few teeth I have left plus some extras. A certain lady will be going to see him very soon in the New Year. Regards, William R. |
| Alan Marsden | I agree with Frank, if archives of newspapers of the late sixties or early seventies were reviewed,I believe that one would find the same argument and recommendation regarding flouridation of water supplies in the Preston and Leyland area, I remember the outcome being the recommendation to flouridate the water supply. I believe that the ownership and management of the water supply has changed dramatically in recent years, could this be the reason flouridation is apparently not continued ?
Re genereal dental standards, prior to emigrating , my sons received the regular attention of the local Longton dentist. It soon became apparent that the standard of dentistry that my sons had received was abysmal !.
The standard of British dentistry is an acknowledged joke, frequently I have noted references associating British dentistry with 'awful teeth'.
On the other hand, I now note the usual North American mouth, with large white uniformed teeth glaring at you , its almost as though the teeth dominate the person, its entirely false,perhaps it's a statement,( ie. 'Look at my teeth, they've cost a fortune'), there is some indefinable insincere property about the whole experience !
Alan M |
| Bill Rigby | The BBC once had a panel to determine correct pronunciation (may still have) consisting of a few academics and literary figures. George Bernard Shaw was naturally one of the panelists and the question arose about the correct way to pronounce 'canine'. Shaw immediately opted for 'K-nine' as the correct pronunciation, at which one of the panelists remarked, "You must have an American dentist!" GBS retorted, "Of course! How else would I have all my teeth at age 85?" |
| Spitfire | Lnda D. Thank-you for your most enlightening post. As you say , `what`s the point of treating water`, if at the end of the day - `you have lead the child to water but cannot make him drink`. |
| Karen | Wasn't there a bit of a fuss a couple of years ago, about fluoride causing black marks on teeth?
Karen. |
| Alan Marsden | Sticking to the dental topic, is there a consensus on Amalgam fillings ?
I have several which were done years ago, I often wonder what effect they could have had !
( I am not particularly inviting negative comment but I don't mind a joke )!
Not having dental coverage I unfortunately avoid dentists until absolutely necessary, however,when I have seen a dentist and asked about amalgum filling /mercury , I have always been told not to worry ! Of course, this statement by itself is not sufficient, and I often wonder as I am sure do others, just what the truth of the matter is !
Alan M
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| Spitfire | Alan, Having read your post with interest, regarding amalgum fillings, I find that there is very little I can say on the subject ( as you do not wish to court negative comments). It is obviousl
y a matter of concern to you. Suffice it to say that research has shown that patients that have had amalgum fillings replaced show improved health patterns after six to nine months. |
| Alan Marsden | Spitfire, thanks for your reply, and I don't really mind any comments you have to make, I was only pre empting the usual humour one can often expect when leaving ones self wide open to criticism.
You may well be correct, I've been considering having all the fillings removed for years, certainly had I known what I know now, I would not have had the fillings.
I would appreciate knowing the source of the research that you mention as today I looked up 'amalgum fillings' on the internet, again no concesus !
Alan M |
| anacortesdamp | Alan:
My wife was a dental assistant for many years. Her take on mercury amalgam fillings is that as long as they aren't disturbed, they aren't a hazard. When they were being placed, they sure as hell were, but that's past history.
I still have 5 or 6 amalgam fillings, but have had the others replaced by fiberglass/porcelain. After I retired in 1998, I lost my dental insurance, so everything after that has been out of our retirement income. We both should really have additional work done, but it's very difficult to justify spending your own money if what's in place is adequate.
Frank Damp
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| LDunlop76 | Re amalgam fillings. The removal of amalgam fillings actually releases a huge dose of mercury into one's mouth, so is not to be recommended unless the tooth needs further treatment or one has a medical problem which can be proved to be caused by amalgam fillings. Long-standing amalgam fillings are pretty stable and don't release much in the way of toxins.
I would not have one of the white filling materials inserted into any of my back teeth as they are just not as hard wearing as amalgam. Front teeth, where cosmetics plays a bigger role, are a different matter, but then front teeth don't need to take the brunt of chewing. But white fillings are not available on the NHS for back teeth anyway.
Of course the ideal solution is not to let one's teeth decay in the first place![;)] Tooth decay is totally preventable by limiting sugar intake to three or fewer occasions a day.
Re fluoride. Over-dosage of fluoride can cause mottling of the teeth if taken while they're developing. The mottling is usually white or pale brown, not black. Fluoridated water will not cause mottling unless a child is also ingesting fair amounts of fluoride toothpaste too - a pea-sized blob is all that's needed. (So forget what you see on the toothpaste ads - that line of paste they put on the brush is to encourage you to use up more of their product!)
No need to eat humble pie, William! I knew you weren't having a dig, just expressing what could be a valid opinion, were it not that Northern teeth are so poor that even fluoride won't put any dentists out of business! |
| Spitfire | Alan, In reply to your request, you may like to try :-
www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html
As someone who spent all of his working life in the electrical industry, I was amazed to read that a tooth with an amalgam filling adjacent to a tooth with a gold crown(dissimilar metals)would become a battery when connected by citric saliva (the electrolite). This in turn would give rise to great pain - producing several hundred milli-volts! The things you learn on the web!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Alan Marsden | Many thanks to Spitfire,Frank and Linda for the information on amalgum fillings, It seems that I 'm in the same situation as Frank, finding it difficult to spend money on dental work when it's entirely possibe that keeping the fillings is adequate. I would however feel more comfortable with them removed without disturbing the fillings, the question then becomes, 'what are the options for replacement' ?
I don't fancy doing as my father did, ie. taking the set of teeth out each night and steeping them in Chlorus !
Alan M |
| LDunlop76 | There is no doubt amalgam is not an ideal material and if it was invented today, it would most likely fail to gain a licence, but it is one of the best materials we have available. The white fillings (composite resin materials) are not as hard wearing and have problems of their own - some studies show they give off oestrogenic substances. It's not quite so bad that you gents with a lot of white fillings would suddenly be singing higher pitched, but white fillings do release chemicals - that doesn't just apply to amalgam.
Dentists do have to exercise care not to set up electrical circuits in the mouth. There was one tale (poosibly apocryphal) when I was a student of a guy who had a gold inlay at the bottom and an amalgam filling at the top and when he bit together he could pick up Radio 1 - what a nightmare!!!
Options for replacing teeth in increasing order of expense:
Acrylic denture
Metal denture
Bridge
Implant - warning, current UK prices for implants exceed £1,000 - £1,500 per tooth - heavens alone knows what they cost in the States! |
| Lady Griffin | This is all very interesting information,thanks -since I am likely to be dragged to the dentists in Yorkshire in the next two months!
Seem to remember my twin sisters- in -law in about 1953? both having all their teeth out before they were 21 as it was free on the National Health till that age and what's more the false ones were implanted immediately..
Maybe after all they were wise but we all thought it was a pity to have healthy teeth out at the time.
I on the other hand persevered and tried to keep mine over many years and have a mixture of fillings -some dating back to Grundy in the 40's only recently causing problems.
LG
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| Spitfire | Linda, Our dental practice gave us a choice a couple of years ago, `go private or leave`. I choose to stay amd as a consequence I carry my `wealth` around with me, not on my fingers or around my neck, BUT IN MY MOUTH!!!! |
| LDunlop76 | Jim, sadly that's been the case with many dental practices. It's becoming harder and harder for NHS dentists to make general practice pay. Overheads increase year on year, esp as health and safety requirements grow ever more stringent (how many dentists wore gloves routinely 20 years ago - now it's compulsory), but NHS remuneration has not increased in line with what it cost to run a practice and many have made the decision to go private. Luckily I'm in public health dentistry and get a salary so I don't have to worry about whether what I make in a day will pay my nurse, the leccy bill, the dental supply company, blah, blah! |