| Grundies dentist |
| kipax | Remember?
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| Kath smith | There were two doors in the dentists room one in and one out, so no one ever saw the end result of his work I swear I've given birth twice and it didn't hurt as much as that butchers work on my mouth. Funnily enough we met a man on holiday who on finding we came from near Leyland admitted to being Mr Grundy's nephew, he was something posh in Shropshire or somewhere, we tried not to get too close after finding out about his family tree. Try the dentists at Lowerbank they are all ok.
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| Martin | AARRGGHH.... someone had to mention that place, I'm surprised they they haven't made a horror film based on it.
Martin
In The Pink |
| julie | Grundies,sends a shiver down your spine.yes i remember the doors the smell,is it any wonder why so many adults today are afraid of dendists.i also remember the school dentist now i dont know it it was the same firm or not,but that man gave me my life long fear of dentists.a large man never smiled very large hands,no welcome in is voice,he coulnt have had children! That was i think at st marys haig ave.
julie
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
i also remember the school dentist now i dont know it it was the same firm or not
julie
The old school dental service (now Community Dental Service with a far wider remit) was a separate entity from the General Dental Service provided by general dental practitioners. So it was not the same firm. However, a dentist could work part time in general practice and part time for the school service, so it could have been the same man!
If everyone hated Grundy's practice so much, why did everyone go there? Was he the only dentist in town?
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| Martin | quote:
If everyone hated Grundy's practice so much, why did everyone go there? Was he the only dentist in town?
I remember going once when I was very young, after that I used different dentists but there were always plenty of stories going around about that place.
Martin
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Young schoolkids dont get to choose the dentist. Even if you are having walking nightmares about the one you go to.
No, but parents wouldn't keep taking you to somewhere which was awful if there was an alternative, surely? Was he the only dentist who gave a general anaesthetic service then? (My dentist didn't do general anaesthetics, so you had to have injections no matter how young you were or how traumatic a procedure you needed!)
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| Martin | quote:
My dentist didn't do general anaesthetics, so you had to have injections no matter how young you were or how traumatic a procedure you needed
That was one of the few instances when I kept my mouth firmly shut.
Martin
In The Pink |
| rocketmanjohn | Yes, I was forced to go to Grundy, and I'm still paying the price 45 years later. I'm sure everyone remembers the hours of waiting and yes the awful smell of 'Newgas'. Not surprising really, Grundy was struck off for being addicted to it. His mother then took over the business officially, even though she was in her 90's. What a fiddle.
My worst horror story was when I had to have 2 teeth pulled and complained about the gas, Grundy did'nt bat an eyelid and promptly yanked them out without anything. I did'nt get a vote, and never complained again, I was 14 at the time.
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| LDunlop76 | All the horror stories in this thread make me think that Mr Grundy was acting as operator/anaesthetist. That was allowed back in the 70's, but was long-since outlawed. The "newgas" mentioned was most likely halothane - it reeks! - no longer in use now. General anaesthetic was confined to specialist centres back in 98 (general dentists no longer allowed to provide it) and as from 1.1.2002 was moved to hospital - largely as a result of bad publicity from one particular case in the Leyland region. Does Grundy's legacy live on in the area?
Oh (while I'm on a roll!) - since the Chidlren's Act was passed, children over the age of 10 can withdraw their consent to any medical procedure, providing they understand the implications of not having the treatment. Anyone forcing treatment on them would thereafter be liable to an assault charge. So Mr Grundy's tactics would land him in court these days!
Martin? You didn't open your mouth for a local anaesthetic? You wimp!!
LD <~~LOL and running fast!
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| Martin | quote:
Martin? You didn't open your mouth for a local anaesthetic? You wimp!!
LD <~~LOL and running fast!
Ouch Linda What was that name again, all mouth and clogs? Now there's a good anaesthetic. 
Martin
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Ouch Linda What was that name again, all mouth and clogs? Now there's a good anaesthetic.
Martin
In The Pink
Naw - clogs aren't the best anaesthetic. Billiard ball in a sock is better!
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
quote:
Does Grundy's legacy live on in the area?
It lives on throughout the land and furthur.
Please don't tar everyone with the same brush. There are many dentists working hard to help people with dental phobia. Specialist practitioners, certain branches of the Community Dental Service and Dental Hospital departments offer a variety of forms of sedation, and also hypnosis, cognitive behavioural therapy and other psychological interventions aimed at overcoming deep-seated fears such as yours. General Dental Council regulations insist that dentists today offer adequate relief of pain and anxiety. Hopefully tales of trauma are becoming a thing of the past.
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| noel | There were 2 dentists I remember, Grundies the main one had several practising dentists, and Iddon's down Moss Lane, a nice chap, member of Shaw Hill Golf Club, had a few rounds with him but always kept my mouth shut. School dentist put me off them for life, went to the clinic in Northgate?? near Leyland Paints and sat in the chair, next minute this mask was flung around my face , I remember panicking and
blacking out, aged 7. Hated them ever since. Grundy's mum used to practice as well . Think he got struck off in the end for sniffing the gas too much. Why did we all go there? It was the main one, centre of Leyland, simple as that.
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| Kath smith | Apparantly my mum didn't go to the dentist for 20 years after a trip to Grundies, the rotten so'n'so made me go every 6 months though. though later I went to the School dentist in Chorley,and years later toothache sent me to Mr Ovenden at Lowerbank on hough Lane, after a few rounds with a Mr Bowles who was on Towngate, I think he was mr Grundies secret son,anyway he was struck off too for inappropriate treatment or something, all I know is it cost me £150 to get my pearlies sorted out. And in 12 years with Mr O I've only ever had 1 filling (for a broken tooth caused by the bowles blokes bodge up).
I'm back there on the 20th thanks for reminding me :<(
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| Caroline | GRUNDY'S! there was a trail of blood from the door, past the bus stop and round the corner; You couldn't get out of the waiting room once you were in as the door only opened inwards- some brave souls escaped when someone was entering, nearly knocking them over. Waiting room full of smoke and old copies of The Beano in yellowed celluloid covers; view of a sad square of lawn; anyone escaping by the usual way out had to go past, and be accosted by a Forbidding Receptionist.Some sort of liaison here, as Grundy left her all his money, on condition that she never wear lipstick! Sensibly ruled out by ensuing courtcase as being an unreasonable demand....
Grundy got a certain amount per tooth extracted, perhaps more for doubles? I only have five of these left, and imagine him running his fingers through the sackfuls after a good day's harvest..
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Your reading it wrong my friend.
Sorry if I misinterpreted you, but when I said that perhaps Grundy's legacy lived on in Leyland, I was referring to dental malpractice still going on in Leyland. (OK, it later turned out the girl who died had an undiagnosed heart condition, but the practice did not have an arrangement with the local hospital for transfer to ICU in case of emergency, did not use a consultant anaesthetist and did not monitor with pulsoximetry throughout the procedure, so breached the guidelines laid down by the GDC.) So taken from that viewpoint, you can understand why it looked as if you meant Grundy's style of treatment was going on throughout the land.
<<But what they couldnt stop where the memories of that place. the storied i still believe no matter how illogical they are :) and the lingering smell of the gas thats still with me whenever I think of the place.>>
One shouldn't diagnose on the internet, but this does sound very much like post-traumatic stress disorder and it is possible to treat it. If you're interested in finding out more, e-mail me and I will try and put you in touch with someone in your area who might be able to help.
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
LDunlop76
If you read my middle paragraph you will see I am now a regular at my dentist and have all my own restored teef! :)
I did read it, but your final paragraph implied that you still had troublesome memories - could still smell the gas when you thought about it etc.. I was proffering help, but if it's not wanted, fair enough.........
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| Doreen Hinks | I too remember grundies I went in for a filling on the back wisdom tooth and it took me over 3 hours to get out.. apparantly they had to revie me in the back room very scary!! also remember the school dentist up Northgate.. I hated that I never heard a closk tick so loud as the one in the waiting room there
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| Lady Griffin | Hello Doreen and welcome from across the Ditch.
I have a nice dentist now who is looking after my few remaining teeth which still show signs of Grundy's handiwork.
His name's Adam Scattergood.Now doesn't that sound much more comforting than the Dickensian Grundy.I think we should all have the benefit of counselling for our suffering.
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| noel | quote:
I too remember grundies I went in for a filling on the back wisdom tooth and it took me over 3 hours to get out.. apparantly they had to revie me in the back room very scary!! also remember the school dentist up Northgate.. I hated that I never heard a closk tick so loud as the one in the waiting room there
Hi Doreen , good to see you on here, I've got me camera back now so I'll bore you with some more photos of Leyland soon. I still have a filling in my wisdom tooth from Grundies, 46 years on. Seems like some sort of record. I remember being scared of that thing that sucks the saliva out of your mouth and they padded it with cotton wool. They were actually very kind to me.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Caroline | Hello Doreen, and how many back teeth did Grundy leave you? I have five...his trainee dentists were no better, one ran the drill onto my throat and subsequent septicaemia had me fainting in the bathroom and laid up for several days. Noel, you speak of a sucky thing to keep your mouth drained...you were lucky! Perhaps there was just one for the whole practice, we were allowed to spit out once we'd choked and gone purple.
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| Martin | [url="http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/lancashire/leyland/news/LEYTOPNEWS0.html"]thisislancashire.co.uk[/url]
AN anaesthetist whose five-year-old dental patient died after a routine operation was today found guilty of serious professional misconduct.
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | As from 1.1.2002 all dental general anaesthetics can only be administered in hospital. The risk can never be eliminated, but GA is safer in a hospital setting.
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| noel | quote:
As from 1.1.2002 all dental general anaesthetics can only be administered in hospital. The risk can never be eliminated, but GA is safer in a hospital setting.
#
Makes a mockery ofthe school clinic dentist back in 1952, my first visit when they just forced a mask over your mouth,literally. How times have changed. My friend visits the dentist where the little girl died and speaks highly of him . We can only have the deepest sympathy for the girl's parents and relatives. There are only losers in this case.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| LDunlop76 | Yes, but then times have changed in many respects since the 50's - for instance, how many people wore seat belts in those days? From what I can gather, the blame in the Leyland case has fallen on the anaesthetist, not the dentist, at the end of the day. As you say, everyone loses in a tragedy like that. The only gain is if it acts as a catalyst for change to prevent the same happening again to another child.
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| noel | The anaesthetist took the majority of the blame, but as he retired immediately after the incident he hasn't really been penalised.
The dentist is I understand under investigation for refusing to act on visits from whichever body inspects dental surgeries . Apparently he had been warned more than once about lack of inadequate resuss. facilities. I'm not sure where this is at now as it has faded out of the news recently.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
The dentist is I understand under investigation for refusing to act on visits from whichever body inspects dental surgeries . Apparently he had been warned more than once about lack of inadequate resuss. facilities. I'm not sure where this is at now as it has faded out of the news recently.
The significant owl hoots in the night.
I haven't heard any more about it recently either. I knew the dentist had been warned about the resuss facilities about 5 months before the tragic death. I don't know where he stands now as GA's haven't been allowed to be carried out in general practice since 98 (if memory serves correctly), only in specialist centres, and only in hospital since Jan of this year. This would mean he doesn't need the same amount of resuss equipment, so his practice may be up to scratch now.
What amazes me is that, despite the publicity the Leyland case had, people will still take chances with their children regarding general anaesthetic. I was doing a GA session yesterday and a child's mother confirmed to the receptionsist that the child had had nothing to eat or drink for 6 hours, as per the pre-op instructions, but on entering the surgery Mum suddenly "remembered" that the child had had a drink of water an hour earlier. It was only when the anaethetist expressed consternation at this and said they'd need to wait at least a further hour if the lad had taken some water, that the Dad blurted out that he'd also had a biscuit just 2 hours earlier. Mum glared furiously at Dad as this revelation meant the child could not have a GA that day - she was going to put her kid's life at risk rather than tell us the truth! Why would anyone take such a chance with their child's life?
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| noel | Oh that's dreadful Linda. And it would all have been somebody else's fault if nothing had been said and something tragic happened. Unbelievable.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| rocketmanjohn | I think this fear of general anaesthetic is going too far. I just had foot reconstruction surgery a couple of weeks ago. The doc would only do it under a local, I was terrified. As it turned out the 'happy juice' they pumped into me worked well and I spent 50 minutes happily talking to the anethestist whilst the surgeon got on with it. I could'nt have cared less, even with the Dremel tool screeching away and the crunching of the bolt cutters. But having said that, I would have been a lot less scared beforehand if I'd thought I was going to be unconcious.
Has G.A. suddenly become dangerous ? Or has it always been that way.
John
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Has G.A. suddenly become dangerous ? Or has it always been that way.
John
It's always been that way. But just as greater precautions are taken in other aspects of life - seat belts in cars, police checks on people working with children and so on - so the medical profession is getting more cautious about the use of GA. And the public is getting more litigation happy - so of course, everyone plays safe!
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| dampslad | I wrote Grundy's obituary when a reporter for the Evening Post. He was sruck off twice, the first time for cheating the NHS by charging for the services of an anaethetist while doing it himself, the second time for being found semi-conscious on the floor. Yes he was adicted to the gas!
I also remember his fleet of cars - a Bentley, A Jaguar, a Ford Zodiac and a small Fiat runabout with the registration numbers GRU 21, GRU 22, GRU 23 and GRU 24 which he kept in a specially-built garage behind the surgery. I think the building's still there.
Incidentally his will left his entire fortune (quite a lot as I remember)to his chief nurse ON CONDITION that she didn't wear make-up or jewellery or o out with ment for at least 5 years. |
| Lady Griffin | I wonder if she did keep away from men for 5 years.It would be interesting to hear the ending to that tale.
Incidentally the spirit of Grundy is alive and well in NZ.
Have just had a huge molar removed which was causing me grief.The dentist couldn't believe the way it was cobbled together with what looked like a rusty pin.He took great delight in showing it to me.
And what's more I clearly remember the particularly painful experience of that filling which was in 1946.
At least it stood the test of time I suppose.
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by dampslad
I wrote Grundy's obituary
So Grundy is filling his last cavity?
(OK, OK, I can hear your groans from here...... sorry, but couldn't resist!)[:o)] |
| Thornley | Hi all, I worked for a short while in one of the shops that Grundy's was split into. The lady in question visited a few time, no make up or men in sight[;)] I hate attending the dentist, still have a fear today (thanks to Mr Grundy)he used to strap you in the chair and thought he was being kind when he gave you a Gollywog (I know its not politically correct but what else do you call them?) to hold! I do have one fond memory of the place though, the garden was lovely and I always liked to stop and look at the fish in the pond, shame they got rid of that.
Vanessa |
| William R | Hi Vanessa, I too was a Grundy patient, and in the annual holidays got toothache.Living in Chorley then I found all the dentists were on holiday, except one. Once inside I wondered whether to "do a runner", antique was not the word. The dentist, a Mr.Kettle looked about 90 and had his wife as his nurse, also very old. I finished up with half a tooth broken off and a dentist saying "Sorry, I can`t do anything with it" I didn`t have to pay and right away went on my bike to Wigan in agony. The first dentist I saw let me in and was aghast, he gave me a cup of tea and a piece of cake (sympathy?) and took all details he could. He took out the remains of the root and sent me away, refusing payment. I have the legacy today of Mr,Kettle. But I also have a very dentist, bless you John!! So you see, there was more than one Grundy type. Regards Bill. |
| William R | Sorry for typing error, I should have said I had a very GOOD dentist now.Cheers, Bill. |
| dampslad | We were never Grundy's patients. I think someone had died in the chair in his surgery and my mother wouldn't allow us to go there. We went to Proctor's in Preston (next to the Gaumont) instead.
But I did once go to Grundy's to give moral support to a school friend, John Birchall, and what I saw was later confirmed by my sister-in-law who worked there.
Under the receptionist's counter were three buttons operating electric locks. The first was pressed when you rang the doorbell to release the front door.
Patients presented their appointment book for checking, after which the receptionist pressed the second button, unlocking the waiting room door. This closed automatically behind you, locking itself. But there was no handle on the other side of the door anyway.
Once in the waiting room, a patient had to leave by the door at the far end, which led to a hall(hexagonal, I think) off which were the surgeries.
There was a corridor leading back to reception from this hall, but there was a third locked door at the end of it, next to the hatch where you had to pay for your treatment. Only when you'd done so was that door opened and you could leave.
I also heard that after the NHS came in and paid dentists "piece work" rates for treatment, Grundy designed and had built a chair on rails with three or four cupboards alongside, each filled with separate sets of the necessary equipment for extractions. This way, he could speed up the system by pushing the chair back to the next equipped cupboard between patients while the nurse re-euipped the used cupboard. He got through dozens of patients in a day, and made a mint!
Colin Damp
Plymouth |
| LDunlop76 | All those locked doors would never get past a health and safety inspection these days - how would all the patients get out in the event of a fire? Crafty way of ensuring payment though - all general practice dentists have their share of bad debtors! |
| bigdave | Grundy was a ....... i wont say it as i am new here, it took me 20 years a lot of time and effort to finaly get my teeth right. My dentist now is great she has restored my confidence and now i dont mind going. |
| skitzy |
When i saw the topic was Grundys [:D] I had to make a comment. We had to go there because Grundy bought paraffin from our shop. He made me quite sick as a child when he took several of my 1st teeth out in one visit. It took a couple of weeks & two different medicines to get better, but we still wasn't allowed to change dentists.
I also remember Amelia the nurse & being treated by his mother, who used to come near your mouth with her wrinkly hands, which used to shake. Do any of you remember a dentist that worked there called MR Mesani[?] He wasn't as bad as Grundy, but the whole place & smell was scary.
Its only in the last few years, that iv'e been able to visit the dentist again & thankfully things have changed quite a bit.
But my experiences at Grundys will be with me forever.
Eileen |
| noel | Looking back there's Colin's note about the obit. We haven't heard from him for ages, is he OK Frank, or has he fallen out with us? I always enjoyed reading his posts,they are always so well written. there again he is a journalist so no surprise there. |