Leyland Forum (Š 2002)

Council Tax
noel	Anyone still living in the South Ribble area is getting hammered year after year by massive council tax increases. 40% increase in the last 2 years. This year the central government funding increase was "only" 5.75% so as inflation is running at a massive 2.7% clearly the tax had to go up by 19% as it did, just for Lancashire to have inferior services. If these councillors who set the budgets had to work in industry and not rely on a monopoly market, they would price themselves out of business . We have no choice. We have to pay. [V]
Thornley	Hi Noel, I agree with you. I live in Whitestake, no services, lucky to get the bins emptied, but still have to pay massive council tax bills! Vanessa
noel	It's 40% in 2 years Vanessa. And guess what, I bet it goes up by almost 20% next year with the same glib excuses for it. It's time we revolted.
William R	Hello Noel and Forum friends, I`m back in business after my period of "contemplation" and have been following the Forum from the sidelines. The thing about Council Tax in your area makes me realise how fortunate we are here; the town may be the butt of every comedian around, even a certain soup manufacturer is having a go at us. The area was struck by closure of the coal industry which resulted in high unemployment, couple this with the destruction of most of the manufacturing base in this county, e.g. the steel industry and the money isn`t there to pay Council Tax. Being such an area it receives grants from higher authority, and puts out various council activities to Tender. As a result, our dustbins are emptied each week by a private undertaking, regular as clockwork. They know that if they fail on the job they lose the contract. This also applies to council house repairs. We have seen the rise in the number of housing associations, doing the council`s work. The central areas of the borough get charged the standard rate of tax, but the ares outside the central area pay a parish precept making their rate much higher. The houses in these areas are of a much higher quality, and newer than the central area and are snapped up by people being brought into the district from the affluent "down south" where they sell mediocre house for astronomical prices and arrive here with money to burn and take quality housing and pay enhanced rates. Houses in the central area are generally taken by people who have finished work for some reason or other, and in many cases have their rent subsidised by the council, so one area pays for another. See the number of Volvos and Mercs etc commuting to town each day, every day is gridlocked at peak times. See the number of Night clubs we have and the number of eating establishments and Travel Agents. In last weeks local press, the Licensing Authorities granted extended hours to 2 a.m. throughout the town, due to demand. Concessionary travel is being given to men reaching the age of 60 from April. For 35p. you can travel throughout South Yorkshire and into Derbyshire. For 35p. each way you can visit Leeds any time, or same to Doncaster, Sheffield and Rotherham, the Transport Authority is subsidised from ther whole of South Yorkshire. The bus service is excellent ansd well kept. Grants are available for anyone on a low income and living alone for insulation and security measures. People over 70 can get assistance in house maintenance under the "Stay Put Scheme" providing they meet the criteria. So, living in an area designated as being in need of development grants due to the collapse of industry, isn`t too bad, but I still miss Leyland as I knew it. Sorry to be long winded Noel, from over the Pennines, take care, Regards from William R. aka Bill.
rocketmanjohn	Pardon my ignorance on this subject, but, it sounds to me like all these grants for nothing are the reason taxes and rates are so high in England. Or am I missing something. To quote the old phrase, 'You don't get owt for nowt' John
LDunlop76	Welcome back, Bill - nice to see you posting again. I hope your month of contemplation brought you inner peace. Council tax here has only gone up by..... I think the figure quoted was 8.9% (haven't had the bill yet) - but that's still more than 3 times the rate of inflation. If it's 20% in Leyland..... well, I think I'd be quizzing my councillors about how they justify that. [:(!]
William R	Hello John, It may seem like its "owt for nowt", but when you are constantly being approached in the press with comments like "Are you getting all the benefits you are entitled to, apply now" what are you to do. I received a letter from a branch of the local authority asking if I needed any household repairs doing as I was over 70 and on my own. I live in a very old house which is in good repair, but I replied "tongue in cheek" and got a visit from a surveyor. He checked round and made a list of things he considered I wanted. It all goes back to the Thatcher Poll Tax, when rich and poor were taxed alike. Following the demise of Poll Tax. the Council realised that we, in old houses had suffered, and made allowances related to Banding, pension etc, and allowed a bit off the Rate, As a result we are means tested each year to see if we still qualify. Result - all door locks changed to comply with British Standard, loft insulation fitted, a leaking radiator replaced which I didn`t need, my bathroom flat roof strip and re-cover. They even wanted to upgrade my double glazing, but I already had this in hand (it cost a bomb). We even got a couple of energy saving light bulbs. The reasoning for this was that it was cheaper for this work to be done, than the authority being saddled at some stage with paying charges to keep old people in residential care. The only proviso is that you remain in the house for five years, its called The Stayput Scheme,it is a charity, Government funded. Remember also that this is a depressed area with a Labour dominated council, 66 lab. 2 independent. The water and drainage rates are based on the old system of Rateable Value, which again benefits old houses. New houses are on water meters, not a good thing for some. All in all, the attitude is have it whilst its available, I could go a lot further, but I`ll leave it there, but when you hear the name of Barnsley being cited by some comedian as a Joke, ask who is laughing. Regards, Bill.
noel	Apparently some people south of the Wash are up in arms about the high increases this year, "up to 4 times the rate of inflation", Band D in Devon is a massive Ł1120 p.a. because " the government is favouring the north when funds are dished out." "Meanwhile", continued the program "Band D in Leeds is only Ł988, proving the north is benefiting." What they didn't mention was that band D in good old cheap Lancashire will be in the region of Ł1270. !!!![:(!]
William R	Hi Noel, I`ve been reading the postings about Council Tax and the views of people in the South regarding forthcoming increases. I find that there is a big difference between here and Lancashire, said to be due to the way the area is judged by the Govt. to be in need of assistance. I`ve posted a lot about it at other times, but we`re in the annual guessing game now. Rumours abound about how swinging the increases are going to be, right up to the day the rate is announced. When it is, and is seen not to be as much as anticipated, the talk goes out that "good management" on the part of Officials, lets vote for them next time. Its my opinion that the figure first put out was to that end, gain popularity. People have short memories. I`ll not go political on the Forum, its not the place, but a member of my family was forcibly ejected from Leyland Public Hall for repeated "heckling" of the Blue candidate. I was appointed onto an electors panel run by the Council to forward views on their performance. I put my bit in about poor street lighting away from the town centre, poor roads, dog fouling, not safe to go out, etc. I lasted two years, then the Rules were changed, two years was the maximum length you could be on the Citizens Panel. Perhaps it was because I complained that the cleanest, well lit, well maintained roads were round the Town Hall and Town Centre, perhaps I touched a nerve somewhere. From over the Pennines, Cheerio, Bill.
rocketmanjohn	William, Pease don't get me wrong, I don't blame you for one minute for getting everything that is due to you. You are living with a system that creates the benefits you are reaping. All I am saying is that benefits arent free and all the people paying for them can't complain, if that is what they want, but they all seem to. Officials are elected and are just as easily voted out, this is democracy. I agree that this Forum is not the place to get political, but, 'you gets what you votes for'. Make the best of your life Bill, you've earned it. It's the other end of the spectrum here. Income tax is lower, there are no rates or poll tax, or whatever it's called now. We pay city taxes which are around $320 a year [200 pounds?] for an average house. Purchase tax is 8%. No work, no medical, unless you qualify, which means a bunch of kids. There is plenty of work for anyone willing to, but a lot don't. Pensions are poor, one is expected to provide ones own. I'm not saying it's any better, but a lot different. John
noel	I prefer our system John but the reality is that the benefits have been there for some time now and it's totally unjustified to keep getting these massive increases without seeing any improvements in services. I suspect a lot of this money is for councillors to have twinning holidays in the South of France. When is enough enough? When the tax exceeds your take home pay??
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by noel When is enough enough? When the tax exceeds your take home pay?? Noel, you brought me up short there - when it dawned on me that our council tax bill will be not far short of my monthly take home pay. That means the council tax is practically one twelfth of my income - flippin' 'eck!
noel	quote: [i] Noel, you brought me up short there - when it dawned on me that our council tax bill will be not far short of my monthly take home pay. That means the council tax is practically one twelfth of my income - flippin' 'eck! I hadn't looked at it like that Linda, but yes, same for me. AND if they continue to rise at the rates of the last 4 years , in 2 years time it will be 1.5 times your monthly pay 4 years after that 3 times your monthly pay. It's a Hyperbola extending rapidly up to exceed what you earn which is why I get so damn angry about it. These councillors responsible for this should be booted out of office for gross incompetence before we are all bankrupted by them.
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by noel [br These councillors responsible for this should be booted out of office for gross incompetence before we are all bankrupted by them. Come the revolution, Noel, we'll have 'em first up against the wall![}:)] Seriously though, my area is so dyed in the wool Labour that if Labour put up one of their pets as candidate, some soft folks would vote for it! I've spoilt my ballot paper at the last two local elections in an effort to express my disgust with the choice of secure Labour 'I'm superglued to this ward' candidate or Conservative 'Ive no chance - that's why I didn't bother sending out any leaflets' candidate.Down the road in St Helens, Labour are so confident, they could even field the Tory turncoat Woodward and get him elected - I've walked past his house in St Helens (back street terrace - yeah, right[;)]) and it doesn't looked lived in.... unless his butler occasionally kips over in there![:p] On the other hand, I'm not so riled about it as to stand as an independent candidate myself......
LDunlop76	To clarify the above, I'm not anti-Labour as such, it's just that Labour don't seem very Labour these days! On a local level, it doesn't seem very socialist to be trimming services AND bumping up the bills!
noel	quote: Originally posted by LDunlop76 To clarify the above, I'm not anti-Labour as such, it's just that Labour don't seem very Labour these days! On a local level, it doesn't seem very socialist to be trimming services AND bumping up the bills! I understand where you are coming from Linda. I'm very much an apolitical person . What I can't understand are the claims by the Conservative party that the Labour Govt. is preferring Labour councils to Conservative when the central funds are issued. Where does that put Lancashire , with a large Labour majority, a traditionally low paid area and the third highest council tax in the land. I normally don't vote as I think they are all a bunch of you know whats. As you say. come the revolution.
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by noel I I normally don't vote as I think they are all a bunch of you know whats. As you say. come the revolution. I go into the polling booth and write "neither of the above" across my ballot paper. It's totally ineffectual, but it let's 'em know I didn't want either of 'em! I'm sure the official must twig I'm spoiling my paper as I'm in there longer than it would take to put a simple cross and it feels a bit naughty, but one has to do these things sometimes! The candidates do get to see the papers, I'm led to believe - a friend's aunt once stood as a councillor and the count was very close, so the officials asked the candidates to look at the spoilt papers and decide who they should be awarded to e.g "you tory b*****d" was accepted as a vote for Labour and so on! Register your protest, Noel!
Martin	quote: Originally posted by LDunlop76 quote: Originally posted by noel I I normally don't vote as I think they are all a bunch of you know whats. As you say. come the revolution. I go into the polling booth and write "neither of the above" across my ballot paper. I've had this conversation before and come to the conclusion that there should be a box on the ballot paper that says "None of the above candidates" perhaps, if enough people ticked this box, they would have to kick out the current bunch and throw the election open to a new set of people.. Now that would be a fair system.
noel	Maybe a case for the Monster Raving Looney Party to have a go Martin.??
rocketmanjohn	'The Monster Raving Loony Party' has an excellent web site, a bit weird but good. I believe that Screeming Lord Sutch is dead, is this true ? His brother, David, used to be a mechanic at Thorn Trees petrol station on Wigan Road. I agree with the 'None of the above' idea, enough of those should require all candidates to be removed from the ballot and new ones added. Here in the Deep South we have the best politicians money can buy. The ex Governor is in prison on extortion convictions along with his son and the State insurance commissioner. The ex Grand Wizard of the KKK, David Duke, almost became Governor, I think he's about to, or already is, in prison on mis-appropriation of election funds. Great system eh ? John
noel	Yes "Lord" Sutch died a few years ago, sadly. He brought a bit of humour into a nasty industry. I didn't realise he was a local lad, assume so if his brother worked at Thorn Trees?
William R	Hi Noel, Just got my Water Rates - Gone up 6.4% Emergency Call Unit Charge - Gone up 25%. Works Pension gone up 1.3% Weekly Pension gone up 6.4%... Am I winning? Not got Rates yet. Cheers,Bill.
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by rocketmanjohn I agree with the 'None of the above' idea, enough of those should require all candidates to be removed from the ballot and new ones added. An abstention box? Yes, a good idea - at least the would-be politicos would know what we thought of 'em! However, ours sound almost angelic compared to yours, John! [:0]
William R	Hello Linda/Noel, The Rates issue again. Barnsley Band D is Ł1039 to Ł1097 (if you live in a nice area) and there is a little note which says that the amount the Government says you need each week to live on (the applicable amount) is Ł102 per week. The rise is 7.9% this year. Just for a laugh, I got a gas bill reminder this week, had I forgotten? Phoned the number, told them it was Direct Debit, they said sorry, the Bills haven`t been sent out yet, the computer sent the reminder out in error!!! I wonder who runs the computer? Big Brother or what? Cheers, Bill.
noel	Band D here Wiliam is Ł1195 . I have just received a note through my letter box saying the projected increase next year is 28%. Followed by "Vote Tory" ( we have a labour council). It also said "Women drivers should be banned" Now, when we first bought a car with an automatic choke, my wife complained she had nowhere to hang her hand-bag.Linda, I rest my case.
William R	I think I`ll stay this side of the hill, Noel. As for lady drivers - I`ve two daughters and one daughter-in-law who drive, as well as their spouses, and two grandaughters as well who drive, so I`ll not say anything, I`d lose my wheels. From over the Pennines, Cheerio, Bill.
noel	quote: Originally posted by William R I think I`ll stay this side of the hill, Noel. As for lady drivers - I`ve two daughters and one daughter-in-law who drive, as well as their spouses, and two grandaughters as well who drive, so I`ll not say anything, I`d lose my wheels. From over the Pennines, Cheerio, Bill. I'm probably the worst driver in my family Bill, still I'm allowed a bit of poetic licence aren't I? Just hope when Linda comes to thwack me she takes the train. [:)]
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by noel It also said "Women drivers should be banned" [:0] Was that a bit of a fib, Noel? Fibbing and insults! That warrants a double thwapping! And get the train to Leyland on a Sunday? [:p] Do they still do a Sunday service?
Thornley	Hi Noel, well the dreaded council tax bill came through this week[:(][:(][:(][:(]and yes the damn thing has gone up again[:(!][:(!][:(!]I wish the services could improve in line with the payments.
noel	Now come on Linda, where did I say women drivers should be banned? Good idea though.[:)] And yes very good train service to Lostock Hall on a Sunday. (I won't be home). Thornley we need to revolt against this Council Tax increase. And many people find me revolting .
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by noel Now come on Linda, where did I say women drivers should be banned? In the post I quoted from! Or do you really expect me to believe the Council put that on their bill to you? [:p] If you weren't a fellow Pratchett fan, I could take real offence! [}:)]
William R	Hi Linda, This thread seems to be lying dormant so I`ll post a few things. Our Council has just sent me a little booklet containing a list of all the hopes and aspirations for the future of the Borough, and at the back is a CD, which gives a very comprehensive review of their intentions, resulting from a survey of selected citizens. I remember getting a survey pack many moons ago asking what I thought of Lighting, Waste collectiion etc. I filled it in to the best of my ability and as honest as I dared, particularly the section asking for comments on matters not covered. The analysis states that of some 1200 people sent the survey only 300 replied, not good enough really, but their views and comments have been used as a yardstick for future development in the Borough. The 1200 was supposed to be a typical cross-section of ratepayers, its a pity they were not better informed at the time as to the outcome, maybe more would have replied. Posted just for interest, Cheerio, Bill.
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by William R The analysis states that of some 1200 people sent the survey only 300 replied, not good enough really, but their views and comments have been used as a yardstick for future development in the Borough. I've heard that for questionnaires of that sort a 30% return rate is considered average. 30% of 1200 would be 400, so it was a fairly low return rate. As you say, maybe if more people had realised that their responses would influence future policy, more would have replied.
noel	This weekend has been a wonderful one for paying taxes. I really hope the government erects a monument of sold gold in memory of the sinking of the titanic. A full scale one should be possible, after collecting Ł165 road tax, Ł120 Council Tax, Ł25 "fine" for not declaring a SORN for a vehicle I scrapped 4 months ago, and Ł200 VAT on a boiler I am about to have fitted. Filled the car tank up with petrol, Ł30 bill is about Ł21 tax and finally bought a bottle of Scotch to drown my sorrows, Ł11.20 with something like Ł7 Customs and Excise Tax. No wonder Parliament voted themselves a 25% increase in their pensions. They fully deserve it. not.
Martin	Noel, do you work for the inland revenue? I think that next year, council tax won't increase by much... I'm sure there's an election around then, funny that.
noel	quote: Originally posted by Martin Noel, do you work for the inland revenue? I think that next year, council tax won't increase by much... I'm sure there's an election around then, funny that. Pardon me for being a skeptic Martin but why did the liberals and newlabour get together to keep the majority Conservatives off any of the commitees. To push the taxes even further, and in any case I'm like an elephant. ( grey and overweight) I have several options. 1) Self combustion. I'm working on this. 2) Turn back the clock 40 years, change sexes and get pregnant. Immediately I'll get a free council house ( as long as I'm single) and about Ł500 in tax credits all paid for by you lot.-- I consider this an unlikely happening though. 3) On my return from Crete I will throw away my passport, claim I'm an asylum seeker from Iran ( colour should be fine by then) and that if I'm returned I've committed adultry ( could happen in Crete) and will be stoned to death ( the stoning could be mainly due to an excess of Boddies bitter I should add,) Any Lancastrians who want to raise an objection to these obscene increases in taxation try www.isitfair.co.uk It won't do any good but it may make you feel better.
noel	The Liberal Democrats have voted to get rid of Council Tax. " If Tony Blair doesn't get rid of the council tax, the council tax will get rid of him". Well at least somebody's agreeing with me.!!!
Martin	But what tax will they put in it's place Noel? Thatcher forced her tax on us. Labour have kept the council tax, what are the options?
Spitfire	I would suggest that the first step would be (in a localized situation) to keep Preston Council at arms length with reference to this proposed merger. At least South Ribble appear to be making a better job of it. You can only play with the cards you are dealt!
noel	The liberals have always favoured a local tax on earnings. That way the rich pay more, the poor less. And it's distributed amongst the household instead of poor old dad being responsible for it all. I think Jim, our troubles stem from the levies of Lancashire County Council who are responsible for nearly 80% of the taxes. But I would concur with yourthoughts.
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by noel instead of poor old dad being responsible for it all. I pay the council tax in our house! Mind you, hubby pays the mortgage...... That said, the way things are going the two bills won't be that much different soon!
Spitfire	Lesley, Looking at recent proposals by United Utilities, I think you can add the water bill to your list of similar outgoings. I remember that once upon a time the water bill was quite insignificant.
noel	When I first started paying rates, the water bill was less than 10% of it. Now it's something like a quarter. I wonder why we don't just hand all our money over to the government and they give us spending money.
Spitfire	Noel, `Government` and `money` are not two words that sit very easily with me. Being newly retired yourself, I should imagine that you are not thrilled either at paying tax on your pension contributions and then having to pay tax again on the same money before you receive it!
noel	Jim, I've long ago concluded it's futile to complain about the taxation in this country. Nevertheless I shall continue to do so. I am looking at ways of avoiding paying tax. My wife has come up with one suggestion, but euthanasia does not appeal to me<g>. The government should be very careful how it treats it's pensioners. They can hit back.
LDunlop76	Jim, yes, I pay the water rates too and yes, they have soared like the council tax. Is there any form of income the government isn't taxing? We pay tax on our earnings, then pay tax on any little bit our savings earn, pay tax on our pensions. Is there anything legal they don't take a cut of? Noel, your line about them taking the lot and giving us spends made me chuckle. You'll have to watch they don't ground you for answering back if you moan too much! Let's all go and sulk in our rooms!
noel	If it's any consolation Linda, I pay the council tax ( lost count of the numbers of time I've received a red letter saying I've missed a payment and "you have now lost the right to pay by instalments" then I'm told to pay the total amount Ł1000" or whatever "within 7 days, or court action will be taken". What planet are these people on? I'd love it if they would come on this forum and explain how the heck a honest hard working, overtaxed person such as me can find Ł1000 within 7 days.) the water rates, the mortgage , the shopping, the TV Licence, petrol, cuddly toy. The lot!! No wonder my hair's turned grey.
LDunlop76	quote: Originally posted by noel I'd love it if they would come on this forum and explain how the heck a honest hard working, overtaxed person such as me can find Ł1000 within 7 days. Well, short of becoming a rent boy, Noel..... [:0] We've been in the same situation re red demand letters when hubby dearest forgot to pay the council tax on his mother's house after she died and he inherited. Fortunately I pay the council tax for this house on direct debit so I can't miss a payment, much as I might want to![xx(]

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