The significant owl hoots in the night.">
Leyland&Birmingham
noelI'm sure I started a topic going on this but that rotten Martin deleted it I think. grrrrrrrrrr. Well I think it's worth a topic anyway as the company has existed in Leyland since 1862 when James Quinn founded it ( hence "Quinn St. ) The chimney has been in existence and dominated the Leyland skyline now for over a century. On 14th September at 10 am it will be no longer as it is due to be blown up. I hope the pub opens early. The significant owl hoots in the night.
William RSorry about losing the L&B chimney - in the 1950`s the MOS Factory put a target on the north face for some sort of gun sighting from the Tank Factory, I believe it was 1000 yards, I may be wrong. Cheers from William R.
noel
quote:
Sorry about losing the L&B chimney - in the 1950`s the MOS Factory put a target on the north face for some sort of gun sighting from the Tank Factory, I believe it was 1000 yards, I may be wrong. Cheers from William R.
Not sure what the MOS factory is William. The week commencing 9th September bits of Golden Hill and Wheelton Lane will be closed as the front and side of the buildings are brought down. Better get busy with my camera. The significant owl hoots in the night.
William RNoel, the MOS (Ministry of Supply) Factory was the works before Leyland Motors called it Spurrier Works. It was built on the site to fulfil an order for Centurian Mk7 tanks. We Were transferred from Leylands to the Mos Factory to operate the factory but were still Leyland employees. After completing the tank order we converted the plant to build an order of light tanks called the HS1200, and later onLeylands bought back the plant and converted it to a factory for producing engines, we transferred all the machinery from Farington Engine Factory to the new site. Much of the heavy machinery required for tanks was sold to other concerns, shipyards etc. Later on there was an experimental section which developed gas turbine engines for commercial vehicles. How do I know all this? I was on the Plant Layout Section and did all that drawings for the works layout. I could go on , but I`ll leave it for now. Cheers, William R.
noelThat's interesting William I wish you would continue. I always knew the factory as the Tank Factory. Remember once visiting as a school child being shown an area where "tanks were built" and that the equipment could not be disposed of. Being only about 8 or 9 at the time I could only wonder. The significant owl hoots in the night.
William RHello Noel, thanks for your interest in the Tank Factory history. The project was initiated in January 1951 and the then Henry Spurrier was made Leylands Chief Representative with the men from the Ministry. The site was cleared and the work began with all the building erection, and by the back end of 1952 the buildings were taking shape. A new bridge had to be built over the railway line and the start to finish period was about 18 months, and was believed to be a record achievement. I can give you many statistics regarding quantities of material used, as well as who were the sub contractors, but this could become boring for forum readers. Thw official opening was on October 23rd 1953 by Right Hon Duncan Sandys M.P. with many high ranking guests, the most prominent being Gen.A.M.Gunther, I think he was a four star General. The list of guests at the top table is very impressive. The Opening Ceremony was held in one of the buildings which was lavishly converted into a Banqueting Suite, complete with a very long Bar. Part of the building containd nearly all the exhibits from the Bovington Tank Museum, including First world war tanks up to the most recent types. An "exploded exhibit" was made of a Centurian Mk.7 tank which I helped with. On the Opening Day I was drafted for duty as a Guide to assist the Visitors, but that`s another story. I am fortunate in having one of the Souvenir Booklets and List of Visitors for the Open Day which is impressive to say the least. As you can gather, I could go on for ages, but possibly not on the Forum. If you would like me to e-mail more to you, please let me know, you have only had a taster so far. I like your owl. Cheers from William R.
noelOK I will e-mail you later William though hopefully the rest of the forum are finding this interesting as well. Duncan Sands , that is a name I recall well didn't realise it was so long ago though. Glad you like the owl. Cute isn't it? The significant owl hoots in the night.
William RHi Noel, Thanks for your reply - himself was The Right Honorable Duncan Sandys M.P. Minister of Supply, so he must have been important to have caused all the fuss on the 23rd of October 1953. I believe that he was a relative some way of Winston Churchill, by marriage or something. Anyway, less of the frivolity, I do remember the building of the BTR works across the railway from us, it was just after we went there, so both works are about the same age. Its a long time since I was round there, I suppose everything will be different and I`ll be "lost". Can you get through to Croston Road now from Centurian Way? You mention coming through Leylands to get to work at the BTR, I did hear somewhere that a lot of Buildings had been put up between the test track and the Road, enlighten me!! I`M going to send you some more on the MOS Factory by the other system, it may be in a day or so, so bear with me. Cheers from William R aka Bill.
Peter119For pics of the downfall of the Leyland & Birmingham chimney see the Leyland Historical Society site on http://www.houghton59.fsnet.co.uk/news%20A%20views.htm
noel
quote:
Hi Noel, Thanks for your reply - himself was The Right Honorable Duncan Sandys M.P. Minister of Supply, so he must have been important to have caused all the fuss on the 23rd of October 1953. I believe that he was a relative some way of Winston Churchill, by marriage or something. Anyway, less of the frivolity, I do remember the building of the BTR works across the railway from us, it was just after we went there, so both works are about the same age. Its a long time since I was round there, I suppose everything will be different and I`ll be "lost". Can you get through to Croston Road now from Centurian Way? You mention coming through Leylands to get to work at the BTR, I did hear somewhere that a lot of Buildings had been put up between the test track and the Road, enlighten me!! I`M going to send you some more on the MOS Factory by the other system, it may be in a day or so, so bear with me. Cheers from William R aka Bill.
I don't know how long ago you visited Leyland Bill, but yes you can get from Centurion Way through to Croston Rd though signs say it is a private road for authorised people only , everyone ignores it. The access is at the bottom of Centurion Way through the Spurrier Works main entry. The sheds on the right hand side of the main thoroughfare have gone now and are replaced by 3 I think, blocks of small units, 4 to a box. At the far end you pass through the site, past Paccar Trucks ( the 1978 new site of Leyland Bus and Trucks, and access onto Centurion Way via a roundabout which takes you either down Croston Rd or along Flenswick Way which crosses the Moss and bypasses Leyland meeting back up way past Wade Hall on Leyland Rd. Alternately you can go right round the roundabout onto an adjacent roundabout and either up Croston Rd to Lostock Hall or take the last exit and head for the M6 . Much changed Bill. The significant owl hoots in the night.
noelThanks for the URL Peter. Are you a member of the society? I have quite a few excellent shots as well , my friend also took a video. The significant owl hoots in the night.
William RHi Noel, When was I last up Centurian Way? Try 1959 for size - it appears to have changed quite a lot, no wonder I`m living in the past, I think I`d better shut up!!! I came to Leyland about 1996 to visit and found that we were looking for things and people circa 1959 with little success. My wife and I came to the conclusion the we did not relate to leyland at all, sadly we never came back. The only thing I have of Leyland is a slight Lancashire accent which people recognise. I`ve lived in Yorkshire 32 yrs and I`m still a Lanc. Thank you again for your info. Do you think my little anecdotes of times gone by are appropriate for this medium, or should I withdraw and leave it to the "youngsters" of the Forum? I`ve so many little pieces of old Leyland in mind, perhaps thy wwould be better left to history, what do you think? Perhaps I`m getting a bit morose in my old age. Regards , over and out, Bill. ( Sorry, my maths are wrong, I`v been here 42 years)
Martin
quote:
Do you think my little anecdotes of times gone by are appropriate for this medium, or should I withdraw and leave it to the "youngsters" of the Forum? I`ve so many little pieces of old Leyland in mind, perhaps thy wwould be better left to history, what do you think?
Of course your words and thoughts are appropriate Bill. All contributions are valid here and I'm sure that people reading this forum are learning little bits here and there. In The Pink
noel
quote:
Hi Noel, When was I last up Centurian Way? Try 1959 for size - it appears to have changed quite a lot, no wonder I`m living in the past, I think I`d better shut up!!! I came to Leyland about 1996 to visit and found that we were looking for things and people circa 1959 with little success. My wife and I came to the conclusion the we did not relate to leyland at all, sadly we never came back. The only thing I have of Leyland is a slight Lancashire accent which people recognise. I`ve lived in Yorkshire 32 yrs and I`m still a Lanc. Thank you again for your info. Do you think my little anecdotes of times gone by are appropriate for this medium, or should I withdraw and leave it to the "youngsters" of the Forum? I`ve so many little pieces of old Leyland in mind, perhaps thy wwould be better left to history, what do you think? Perhaps I`m getting a bit morose in my old age. Regards , over and out, Bill. ( Sorry, my maths are wrong, I`v been here 42 years)
Bill , that's what this forum is all about. Bringing people in from far and wide who have lived/still live in Leyland. I have never ever lived in Leyland. My wife has. I tease her like mad over it. We Faringtonians are so much superior. (cough,cough) I'm going to Santorini in 2 days , returning October 3rd. So I will be a bit quiet from now on. If you, me , Martin Lady G , Caroline, Mossy, LD Martin, that lovely Pink lady the lads in America, John Frank Noel , gosh I hope I haven't missed anybody, forgive me if I have, if we all stop writing because we think others aren't interested, then why the heck are we on a forum? William, keep the posts coming in, or else!!! Noel The significant owl hoots in the night.
William RHi Martin and Noel, I have your messages and take note. I just did a reply and its dissappeared into the ether, so here goes again.First, enjoy Santorini. Second, as a Faringtonian - what is "The last Saturday in Farington" we used to wonder about this because it was still there on the Sunday after!! I`ll put some more tales of "Iwas there" direct onto the Forum, in Old Businesses, one coming later today. They are all authentic, I just hope I don`t tread on anyone`s toes and upset them. Regards, O&O, Bill.
noelOK Bill et al best wishes, see you all on 2nd October hopefully. [img]http://usa.venus.co.uk/weed/agifs/images83/owl.gif
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ThornleyHi, all I don't respond too often but I do read others replies, don't stop the tales Bill I really enjoy them. I am pleased to say rather young for a lot of these memories but love to hear them. Vanessa
William RHi, Vanessa; I`ll do my best to keep you all amused about the "good old days" when I was a litle bit less older (not younger). My daughter says "publish and be damned" people leave us with so few memories of what went on in those days. Just two snippets here, what was that smell in Melias shop on the corner of Bradshaw Street and Towngate? Was it cheese? Another one, did anyone shop at the Maypole in Chapel Brow, and watch the man pat the block of butter into shape on the counter, and put the picture on, was it a sheaf of corn? Remember the marble floor covered in sawdust, and biscuits in tins with glass lids, Regards Bill.
Lady GriffinNice to read your comment Vanessa. I agree with your daughter's "publish and be damned statement",William. Give Noel lots to read when he comes back from soaking up the sun.I wonder if he's secretly having a peek while he's gone -being seriously addicted he probably can't resist. Linda aka LG.
Martin
quote:
Originally posted by noel
I'm sure I started a topic going on this but that rotten Martin deleted it I think. grrrrrrrrrr.
Wasn't me honest!
quote:
The chimney has been in existence and dominated the Leyland skyline now for over a century. On 14th September at 10 am it will be no longer as it is due to be blown up.
How did the demolition go?
noelHold on a minute.[img]http://usa.venus.co.uk/weed/agifs/images83/owl.gif[/img] Ahh that's better. The demolition went well as delomitions can. The whole of the Golden Hill / Wheelton Lane corner is changed for ever. I have my thoughts on what I'd like to do to these developers.
William RNoel, I`m just reading your bit about Wheelton Lane. Once visited that bit of the L&B and watched them putting some sort of rubber coating on Spitfire petrol tanks to make them `self-sealing` if they got bullet holes in them. The coating swelled up when petrol got to it and sealed the hole.Cheers, Bill.
noel
quote:
Originally posted by William R
Noel, I`m just reading your bit about Wheelton Lane. Once visited that bit of the L&B and watched them putting some sort of rubber coating on Spitfire petrol tanks to make them `self-sealing` if they got bullet holes in them. The coating swelled up when petrol got to it and sealed the hole.Cheers, Bill.
Amazing what we Polymer Chemists can come with isn't it Bill. Normally though we try to compound to reduce swell in solvents / oils where intimate contact occurs. Hadn't heard of this application before. There again how often have I compounded for Spitfire fuel tanks.
William RHi Noel, I`m searching my memory here, did L&B at one time make the component parts for PLUTO, Pipe Line Under The Ocean which was used after D-Day to transfer fuel across the English Channel? At Leylands we had an Engineering Society which allowed us to visit various firms allied to the motor trade, we went to L&B and to B.T.R.when it was on Golden Hill Lane, to see tyres made. Another question, behind Fishwicks Garage was a Rubber Works, was it Baxters or British Diolene, we knew it as "The Gas Mask Factory", it was always regarded as a secret place of work, rumour was they made frogmen suits there before there were frogmen as well as all types of gas mask. Regards, Bill.
CarolineWhat are they going to put in place of the Rubber Works? Excellent photos on the Historical Soc. website, but very sad..... that was a nice bit of Industrial architecture!
anacortesdampBill: Yes, L&B made "PLUTO". George Damp and Sons had a small machine shop at the time and had a contract with L&B to make many of the special hose clamps that were used. Caroline: My sister, who lives on the site of the old Leyland Motors North Works, says the old L&B site will be used for houses. She says the racket from the demolition is very noticeable and everything around is covered in brick dust. Frank Damp Anacortes, WA
William RHello Noel, You may know the answer here or may be able to put it to someone who does, I`d just like updating. There used to be a cobbled road from Golden Hill Lane which led to Broadfield I think or to Stannings Bleach Works, and there was an iron gate which had to be closed on Boxing Day (?) to keep it as a private road. Anybody know? Regards, Bill.
rocketmanjohnWilliam, The road lead to the farmhouse that owned all the land that the council houses were built on. I think they were called 'Foresters', but I'm not sure. Last time I looked, the road still existed, but ended on Bannister Drive, with a green steel gate. John
dampsladNice to hear about the Spitfire tank lining made at L&B. Is it true they pioneered rubber flooring, and that miles of it were laid on RMS Titanic? Back in the late 50s/early 60s my late mother worked the "housewive's shift" (afternoons) at L&B packing inflatable rubber dinghies for use in ejector seats. At the time, English Electric (later BAC and now BAe) at Warton were testing the P1 Lightning and one went down over the Irish Sea. They gave up looking for the pilot, Johnny Squires, after about 3 days. But he turned up a week later on the Scottish coast. He reckoned his life has been saved by one of the dinghies, and visited L&B to thank them. Colin Damp Plymouth
CarolineHello Bill, Noel. I used to live on Bannister Drive and passed the green gates every day on my way to school . The house was up the cobbled lane to the right , after a copse, and on the left were farm buildings and fields. There was still, in the 50s , a cart horse we would stroke, and several cows. Around '61, our 'Yoof Club' went Carol-singing, visiting old folk in little cottages with rag-rugs and cast-iron ranges, then ending up at the ' Big House'. (shades of 'Cider with Rosie', or what?!) This was Forester's. There was a dinner party just starting, all the ladies were wearing long evening gowns, men in bow ties etc., they all looked a bit ill-at-ease when we arrived and piped up. I was really impressed by the scene, we were given mince pies and tangerines, and went away with a new knowledge of our place in Society, hahah!
CarolineJust thought, the cobbled lane only went from Bannister Drive to Haigh Avenue when the estate was there, but did it used to link up with the Bleach works before?
William RI remember walking down Hough Lane by the Gas Works when one of the P1a planes came over, we didn`t know then it was to be the Lightning, it looked fantastic. Many years later at the Farnborough Air Show there was a display team of Lightnings called the Black Diamonds; Iwas at the far end of the runway when they took off looking towards the Black Sheds, the awesome power of nine en bloc was unbelievable, never to be forgotten as they shot up vertically for the display. It was English Electric then. Regards, Bill.
noelThere is a arial photo of Leyland in 1948 in Saturday's Evening post and there are no fewer than 6 factory chimneys on it.The photo looks west from Leyland Motors Cricket Ground and shows the works next to the ground, now gone. In the distance is L&B and beyond that fields and fields.No council estate off School Lane ( Broadfield Estate that is now)In fact the town appears to be a collection of factories with a few houses inbetween.
Peter119Hi Noel I saw the Evening Post on Saturday but as usual the newspaper got it wrong. According to the list and copies of all the aerial pictures that Aerofilms had of Leyland, they informed me that that pic was taken on 6th July 1932. The Society has an original print too with the date written on the reverse. Peter Houghton
Peter119Hi Again In case you missed the aerial view of Leyland, its now on the Historical Society website at the following address http://www.houghton59.fsnet.co.uk/photographs.htm where there are more old pics of Leyland. Peter
noel
quote:
Originally posted by Peter119
Hi Again In case you missed the aerial view of Leyland, its now on the Historical Society website at the following address http://www.houghton59.fsnet.co.uk/photographs.htm where there are more old pics of Leyland. Peter
I've had a lot of pleasre looking at the aerial view Peter. The town around that time literally looked like a factory with a few houses in between The open fields made the town look very rural. We have progressed haven't we???[}:)]
CarolineI thought the date was wrong, as we moved into our house on Broadfield Estate when I was one, in 1948.Ther were still a lot of fields around, as our houses were the first and I remember being woken up as a child by a sound which I only recently identified as a woodpecker- I bet they've all disappeared now! Look forward to looking at the aerial view...
noelThere's going to be one massive new housing estate once the builders start work on the old L&B site, 400 houses I believe. Prepare for traffic and noise. The Tiger's gone now by the way , I believe houses are being built there though heavens I wouldn't want a house on that busy corner. Tom Paxton had a song about these new houses "made of ticky tacky and they all look the same". I was thinking this when I wrote about the demise of that magnificent Accrington Brick frontage. Anyone remember the nursery just before L&B on Golden Hill? I used to have to push my sister in her pram every day from East St. in Farington up to there, it was a large detached house as I remember and a woman called Nancy worked there. I remember the dust and dirt from Golden Hill and even from that distance the smell of rubber from the factory. I was hooked!!! <vbg>
William RHi Noel, I`ve lost a chimney. I can see Baxters, the L&B, B.T.R. Iddon Bros. and Leylands at South Works. You`re not counting that one at Meadow Street Foundry are you? What is that at the end of Sumner Street looking like a goal post? I lived in Sumner St. 1929/30 and can`t place it. I remember the old pavilion by the cricket ground, it was painted green and white and had a verandah full length, you can just make it out on the picture. If you look closely at the entrance to North Works you can see a white band, it used to have "Leyland Motors Ltd." painted on it with a coat of arms above, this was taken down during the war and stored. It was put up again shortly after VJ Day. Cheers, Bill.
Peter119Hi Bill I've just enlarged the original picture, thats not a goal post, its a bus going along Hough Lane. Unfortunately, the entrance to the North works does not come up any clearer. Peter
William RThanks Peter, Looking at South Works next to the bowling green, do you remember during the war it was camouflaged to look like a housing estate? Bill.
noelI read tonight that one of the councillors who was complaining what an eyesore L&B had become and was glad it was being pulled down is now complaining about the number of heavy lorries driving up and down Wheelton Lane. Never mind councillor Harrison you'll soon have 400 new families as neighbours. Hopefully a few Afghan refugees and Al Qaeda membors amongst them. [:D]
ThornleyHi all, I drove past the old site this week, GoldenHill Lane looks so empty now. I think it is sad that the original building could not be used, it would still look better than a housing estate. I am glad I don't own the house, near Fishwicks, that was attatched to the old building, it must be a little draughty at the moment. Vanessa
noel
quote:
Originally posted by Thornley
Hi all, I drove past the old site this week, GoldenHill Lane looks so empty now. I think it is sad that the original building could not be used, it would still look better than a housing estate. I am glad I don't own the house, near Fishwicks, that was attatched to the old building, it must be a little draughty at the moment. Vanessa
I went past today, the old hose shop is still standing ( though the paint is cracked and dry, and there to meet me...) It looks like the local shop. For Local people. [img]http://www.roystonvasey.co.uk/Tubbs1.jpg[/img]
noelAnyone got any ideas of how the building plans are progressing and how many houses they propose to build? I was talking to a security guard ex L@B last week, he said 800 which is twice the original figure. Think of all that extra council tax coming in though. I bet we are due a really big drop in the tax next year. (not)
LDunlop76
quote:
Originally posted by noel
Think of all that extra council tax coming in though. I bet we are due a really big drop in the tax next year. (not)
Dream on, sunshine!
noelI've just paid £260 for TWO months council tax and enclosed a rather blunt message to be passed to the idiots who set this tax. They seem to think they were elected to maintain services, not to apply a tax we could all afford. What has angered me again is that the conservatives who have the largest number of seats on the council, don't get a single department due to lab and lib coalition. What a joke these people are. They should be tarred and feathered.
LDunlop76Well, as you have a namesake on the forum now, we can call you "the first Noel" ;-) Altogether now: The first noel the angel did say Was to certain poor shepherds in fields as they lay..... etc!
KarenOh I do wish that I had thought of that one, Linda!! [:p] Karen
noelI'm just thankful those Carol singers weren't singing Good King Wenceslas on that day in December 1945!!!!
noelAnd Lo, just under 5 weeks since I left Dunlop Hiflex ( the old BTR factory onn Centurion Way) to take "early retirement" ( today I started a new position so some retirement) Hiflex has given 90 days notice of impending closure. Did I know something or what!! 224 people are to lose their jobs within 9 months. 26 will remain on site. The work is going to Sarmcol in South Africa.
LDunlop76A lucky escape, Noel! BTW, I married the wrong branch of the Dunlop family and am in no way to blame for Hiflex, though I gather that pre First World War hubby's ancestors were part of the famous branch - 3 brothers fell out with the rubber products side and went to make their fortunes in Australia.... unsuccessfully. One.... or was it two?.....came back to fight in WW1. Trust me to marry into the impoverished side of the family!
noelI never associated your name with the Dunlop brand Linda. I bet you can't asociate my name with anything.<bg>
LDunlop76ROFL!
LDunlop76I feel for the 200 and odd people about to lose their jobs. I hope they can be as lucky as you have been, Noel, in finding something new, but somehow I doubt it. :-(
noelMe too Linda, I fell on my feet, but I had to go early to secure my pension which I have now done. It's hard seeing your firm close down and jobs lost L&B last year, Hiflex this year. Let's hope my latest employers are a bit luckier.
LDunlop76Yup, fingers crossed, Noel.
Alan MarsdenFree Trade; The race to the bottom ! You will notice it doesn,t adversely effect the Politicians, Lawyers,Doctors,Professors and Economists who came up with the idea, but only, " the insignificant people who actually produce the wealth" !!!!! Alan M ( Half the world is composed if idiots, the other half of people clever enough to take indecent advantage of them !-Walter Kerr)
Alan MarsdenL and B.Rubber. I wonder if anyone who worked at L &B during and just after the war years can remember Jack Yates, I don't know what sort of work he did there. Jack lived with his wife Alice in Hall Lane, and he was a pigeon fancier,sending birds all over the UK ! I was always fascinated listening to Jack in conversation as he possessed the most intruiging of Lancashire dialects, in addition to being a most polite and pleasant gentleman . Alan M
noelThat name sounds so familiar Alan, it's a common name. Before my time but gosh I'm sure I know the name. Pause for thinking...........
Lady GriffinGoing back to the carols -I used to wonder at times when I was a kid what the verb 'to certain ' meant in The First Noel. I do know now however before you all tell me!!!! LG
noel
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Griffin
Going back to the carols -I used to wonder at times when I was a kid what the verb 'to certain ' meant in The First Noel. I do know now however before you all tell me!!!! LG
I always thought it was an adjective Linda. To certain poor shepherds.
Lady GriffinThanks Noel.[:D] These were the same poor shepherds that were'washing their socks at night-all seated round the tub' Hands up if you didn't sing those words. LG
noelLOL yes Linda. But the meaning of the verb to "certaine"??? You can't get out of it that easily.
CarolineWho sang " Good King Wenclas LAST looked out.." Apart from me , that is ??
noelI was too busy singing "one in a taxi, one in a car, one on a scooter pipping his hooter following yonder star."
LDunlop76Either that or "While shepherds watched the box one night, all tuned to ITV, the angel of the Lord came down and switched to BBC"! LOL!
SpitfireWhat an irreverent lot you are! LOL Caroline, Who DIDN`T sing ,`LAST looked out`?
anacortesdampAs kids, we all learned the carols by listening, not reading the hymn book. It was quite some time before I realised it wasn't "the sherriff" who spake. Frank Damp
Lady GriffinQuite right Frank we did learn by listening not via the written word. Hence some less than holy interpretations[}:)]. Great fun though. LG
ThornleyI can remember my youngest daughter practicing for the Christmas carol service, she should have been singing "the lord is omnipotent". Unfortunatley she thought the line was "the lord is impotent". It took alot of effort on our part to ensure the right word was used[:)] Vanessa
noelJust a quick return to the original subject, L&B. I passed the site today and of course it's just clay and mud now. The roads are being marked out and drains laid ready for the building to commence. Whilst I am deeply sad at the old place's demise, at least it has prevented more of our countryside being given over to new housing estates, something that is dear to my heart.
Leyland Lancashire UK