| Hooray for Accrington! |
| Martin | quote:
LANCASHIRE GETS GLITZY
A nothern town in England has gone starry-eyed and put in a bid for a Hollywood-style sign.
Accrington's council bosses want to shake off the mill town's old gritty image and bring in a glitzy new one.
The town's name will be mounted in giant white letters across the Pennines - just like those in the Hollywood hills - if the idea wins an arts contest.
[url]http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12363228,00.html[/url] |
| Thornley | Well that sound really good, but I think it will take a little bit more than giant white letters across the pennines to improve the towns image. Speading money on the poorer housing may be a good place to start.
Vanessa <~~~~~~ I can come down off my soap box now[:)] |
| noel | I don't want to see The Pennines desecrated with huge letters. It's bad enough having towns like Accrington and Burnley nestling under them. |
| William R | Noel, One for you from far off days. When I first started as an apprentice at Leylands in 1939, my father showed me two workmen, they looked alright to me, but what he said stuck with me all my working life. "Those two come from Accrington, you don`t speak to them even if they speak to you." That was it. It took some time to find out that they were dilutee labour, brought in after the Munich crisis in 1938, and that they were not eligible to become Section One members of the A.E.U. so were virtually "blacked" because they had come from the cotton mills and were regarded as "tacklers" not having served a recognised apprenticeship. They kept the cotton mills going, but were considered sub-standard where Leylands were concerned. This lived with me all through the war, that people from Accrington and that area were not as good as Leylanders were and had to be ignored. Father would not consider taking a holiday east of the Pennines, that was where Accringtonians went for theirs. This bigotted attitude stuck with me until I came to Barnsley in 1960. Up to then I had never been east of the hills, and strange to say, I found the people just like Lancastrians, genuine folk. Even now, when I saw the name Accrington on this forum, that little shudder went through me, and I can hear him saying, "you don`t speak to him, he`s from Accrington". I don`t like the idea of a Hollywood style name, that may be the reason why. William R. |
| noel | No No No Bill, you are way off here. I have no problem with people from East Lancs.
I love the countryside. Somebody has to live in Burnley. ( Thank god it's not me. :-))
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| Martin | I shouldn't really comment here. I've actually worked in that area... |
| Alan Marsden | What a sad story William R tells us. Imagine, preparing for a war situation, all pulling together etc.,and certain people from 20 miles away (foreiners) being called'dilutee labour', one can easily see why the trade union movement lost it's stranglehold and why Leyland Motors is as nothing compared to what it could and should have been! Imagine being one of the unfortunate people in question,attempting to do a days work in such an atmosphere ! Those'tacklers' would certainly have been knowledgable ,and given an opportunity most useful, but such a situation must have rendered futile, innovation and civility. Twenty centuries of Christianity,for what?
My late mothers cousin when a girl worked in Leyland, she lived at the time in Walmer Bridge and cycled to work daily.She told me that on one occasion she brought home a young Leyland man she befriended,for supper.Later,her father gave her a 'good hiding',for,'befriending 'foreigners'.
Alan M.
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| Spitfire | I wonder if my two late uncles, who were both tacklers in this area, would have felt if they knew how lowly others graded them. Several of my female relatives were weavers and were fully aware just how much they and the cotton industry relied upon those men. |
| Spitfire | Any Hollywood type sign for Accrington shouldn`t prove to be a problem to those of you living in the east. I wouldn`t have thought that 'notgnirccA' would not have meant very much ,viewed from behind. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by Spitfire
I wouldn`t have thought that 'notgnirccA' would not have meant very much ,viewed from behind.
LOL! [:D] |
| Martin | I have been experiencing the "foreigner" label down here in Zomerzet. When you spend some time down south, you realise just how little the people know about northerners... Do I care? |
| William R | I know that my mother -a weaver from way back- looked on the tacklers as Gods.They were respected at least by some.Their jobs must have been very difficult as they had to cope with the extremely robust humour from the females who surrounded them in the work place.
Lady G |
| Spitfire | William, Robust humour wasn`t the only thing they got if those looms were stopped for any length of time!
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| William R | Further to my offering on "tacklers" at Leylands. As a Leyland Apprentice, it was drilled into you by Bert Elkington and Oliver Burgham that you were a member of an elite workforce, and you were destined for "good" jobs (and Section One membership of the A.E.U. with a Green Card). I apologise to the "tacklers" for not accepting them as equals, it was only many years later (35) that I was able to see them for their true worth at B.B.A. Group, where they were all equal members of the workforce, and darned good too!! The looms we had were making conveyor belts for coal mines world wide, and were maintained to a high standard, and funnily enough, the A.E.U. was not recognised as their Union, they were Textile workers. True British workmen through and through. Sorry again for the slur. I have learned some very serious lessons throughout my working life, the greatest of these being to accept a person for what I see as their worth, not what what someone has told me they think they are. So much for now on this one, Cheerio William R. |
| Bill Rigby | Interesting, but I have never seen ACCRINGTON in Hollywood! On the hills or in the valleys. As for such a sign on any pennine promontory, how could it possibly change the dinginess of the town? I think I am allowed to say this since I lived in Whalley for several years and thus am an honorary, if not honorable, east Lancastrian... |
| William R | Hi Bill, I remember Whalley as a place to go through on the journey through East Lancs to the West coast, see you forgot to mention Clitheroe. Never mind, on the return journey, and past Burnley, one felt that at last we had entered the Duke`s country and were on the way home. I do hope we haven`t started a feud with our fellow Accringtonians, with our casual remarks, the Border is not clearly marked, so will take great care next time I have the good fortune to visit my home County. Cheerio, William R. |
| Lady Griffin | Well done, William R.At last!!!!
Congratulations from me.Looks like I'll have to get going with needle and thread to stitich on those four stars.
Lady G. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by Martin
When you spend some time down south, you realise just how little the people know about northerners... Do I care?
This happened over a quarter of a century ago, but on a school trip to the former Soviet Union our party ended up for two days sharing a coach with a boys school from London. It took a great deal of effort on our part to convince them that we don't all wear flat caps and keep pigeons Ooop North! Even after that, one said, in full seriousness, "but you do all have whippets, right?" As many of my school party lived in prestigious houses in Hale and Bowden and had fathers who were managing directors (not me - I was a scholarship girl!), you can imagine their horror at someone believing they kept a whippet and always had "tea" from the fish and chip shop! We would have argued more, but we were rendered speechless at finding the baths in our hotel didn't have coal stored in them! [;)] |
| Spitfire | Your school trip must have been quite an experiece in the 70`s. I remenber walking up to the border fence,complete with guards, one Christmas day in Lubeck (Germany). Very strange and quite unnerving in some ways.
I don`t think that attitudes have changed a great deal in the intervening 30 years, from your experience. I attended a family party in east London last weekend and was informed that the space left in the centre of the buffet table was reserved for the bowl of mushy peas we were expected to bring with us! All in good humour, I know - but no smoke without fire........... |
| William R | Hi Linda, Lady G and me went to a B.B.Q. last Sunday in a typical Yorkshire home (Sheffield) and would you believe what was being kept in the bath??? Many, many cans of beer and lager. Keeping up the image, BUT..... when I was Engineer in Barnsley, I went to visit one of our Company houses to check on the upkeep, and what was in the Bath? No, not coal, but stacks of potatoes. Got to keep the image right, just checked our bath, no problems, `cos we`re from Lancashire and don`t do things like that, do we ? Will show you pics of the BBQ when you come, and the family "arsonist" Cheers, W.R. |
| Bill Rigby | I don't think, William R, that the majority of Accringtonians would start a feud about something so self evident! However, the environs of Accrington are very pleasant. I did not mention Clitheroe since it is far enough removed from Accrington in many respects. Whalley has become quite a focus of weekenders in good weather since it is on the sill of the Ribble valley and the Trough of Bowland. The residents complain of too much traffic and too many pubs since the latter attract youthful and noisy crowds Friday and Saturday nights with instances of mayhem and vandalism; the Swan, the Whalley Arms, the Dog and the de Lacy with the Judge Walmesley round the corner over the bridge, not to mention the Aspinall Arms, the Three Fishes in proximity. There used to be the Hodder Bridge, but I understand it is closed, as is the Punch Bowl just past Hurst Green. |
| rocketmanjohn | Bill,
The Three Fishes is closed as well. 25 years ago all these pubs and restaurants were really nice and well patronised, what happened?
John |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by Spitfire
Your school trip must have been quite an experiece in the 70`s. I remenber walking up to the border fence,complete with guards, one Christmas day in Lubeck (Germany). Very strange and quite unnerving in some ways.
Yes, it was definitely an experience! I remember being rather scared to find soldiers wieldling guns at the airport on our arrival. Tourists were escorted everywhere by official communist party tour guides, esp when our school party were taken to visit a Pioneer camp (Russian equivalent of the Scouts or Guides, except membership was more or less compulsory..... if you wanted to get on at all in life later, at any rate!) so that we didn't contaminate the teenagers' minds with decadent Western ideas! We had been advised to take lots of chewing gum (unobtainable over there) - crowds of urchins would appear, pestering for it at the major tourist sites, in exchange for local badges and so on. One of our party had a pair of jeans stolen from her hotel room, but our teacher advised her not to make a fuss over it - if she did the culprit would have lost her job in the hotel (it had to be someone with a pass-key to the room) and the girl in question could well afford new jeans several times over. Such was the demand for illicit Western clothing, hotel staff would risk their jobs to pinch stuff. We saw some amazing places on our trip, but the constant observation by officials of one sort or another gave it a claustrophobic feel. |
| Bill Rigby | Rocketman: I did not know the Fishes was closed! My dad was landlord there from 1952 to 1967 and then my sister and brother-in-law took over, leaving I think in about 1970 or so. I lived there for about 8 years; country pubs seem to have closed in droves in the UK, which is I think a reflection of changing life styles as well as competition from other forms of entertainment.
LDunlop: I went to East Berlin via Gdansk on the "Batory" and then train in 1950. We did pretty much what we wanted and went where we wanted. The only 'incident' I knew at forst hand was one of our party who wandered close to the western sector one evening and was picked up by two plain clothes I suppose cops. He spent three hours being interrogated! On that trip, I met Erich Honneker, who was head of the 'Frei Deutsche Jugend' at the time, a young very personable fellow. Who would imagine he would become head of state and the awful Honneker?
I went on a trip to Poland in 1983 with a very good French friend who had been a POW in the then Pomerania and who wanted to revisit the sites of his captivity and subsequent adventures. We drove from the Vosges through western Germany and then Eastern Germany. On the Eastern autobahns, the speed limit was strictly observed, and I mean no latitude! Cost me 80 DMs, Later, as we bowled along, Jean pointed out that someone was standing in the middle of the road ahead; I can see, I said, what the heck is he doing? As we drew nearer, Jean said, Look, he's looking at us through binoculars! Why would he do that, I wondered, when Jean suddenly said, 'Merde! He's checking if we are wearing seat belts!" And started to buckle up. Too late. Flagged down, we pull to the side and the cop asks Jean why he was not wearing his seat belt. Jean shows him a scar from an operation and says, it hurts! The cop says, then sit in the back and fines him 50 DMs!
When In Poland, we were told they are short of this, short of that, so we laid in a stock of chocolate, chewing gum and coffee, the latter for two old ladies that sheltered Jean and a friend at the risk of their lives when they escaped captivity. (He had sent them food parcels and gifts regularly since the end of the war, now he would see them for the first time for years). We found they had plenty of coffee! On that trip, I decided one could have a great vacation in eastern Europe provided one changed western currencies on the black market! The black market rate was something like 15 to 1 compared to the official rate. We initially intended to sell the candies, but ended up giving them! |
| William R | Bill, what was you doing at Burtonwood? was this when it was an American base or just after, had a colleague who went to either Burtonwood or Risley when the Atomic Energy lot took over, name of Jack Sledge, claimed everybody had it in for him wherever he was, once met never forgotten. Tell us more. William R. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rigby
LDunlop: I went to East Berlin via Gdansk on the "Batory" and then train in 1950. We did pretty much what we wanted and went where we wanted.
My experience from the USSR in 1975 was that we were escorted pretty well everywhere, but that may have been because we were a school party, not adults. We certainly could not leave the hotel without accompaniment, although there was one afternoon in Leningrad when there had been some difficulty with the transport arrangements and a small group of us were allowed to catch the public bus back to the hotel. No conductors on the buses - it was taken on trust that all passengers would deposit their 3 kopeks into the fares box at the door.
No black market money changing for us - and I remember it was forbidden to bring Soviet currency out of the country, though I did sneak out a few kopeks. Not that there was a great deal to spend our money on - we were kept strictly to the official souvenir shops and I have no recollection of any cafes or ice cream vendors, even though it was summer. I do recall the hotel food was rather dire at times - our last evening we were served something which looked like apple turnovers for dessert, so we all dived into them hungrily, only to discover they were filled with sweetened cabbage! [xx(] Maybe the decent stuff was kept for business men? There's no quid pro quo in a party of teenagers! <g> |
| Bill Rigby | William R: How did you know I was at Burtonwood? Do not recall mentioning it.
I arrived in Burtonwood on January 1, 1966 as part of the advance party to re-open the base as a US Army Supply and Maintenance Depot. I was working at Nancy General Depot in Nancy, France, when the CO summoned me a few weeks beforehand and, on the basis of my English background, asked me if I would be prepared to help out in the transfer to England of the Western France (Ingrandes)Depot. He asked me to keep the conversation confidential since it was not then known Burtonwood would be re-opened as an Army Depot.
I arrived at the RAF Burtonwood/Ministry of Supply building at 8 a.m. that morning and was ushered in to the office of the civil servant in charge who confessed he had heard absolutely nothing about "Americans returning". After a cuppa and a chat, the future base commander, a colonel whose name I forget for the monet, arrived with a CID warrant officer in tow and a sergeant. We had the base opened and went on a tour of the buildings... We established the COs office in one of the houses in the former housing site and I acted as Executive Officer until the designated EO arrived a couple of weeks later. My main task was to meet people coming in from Paris at Manchester Airport and orient them and take them to accommodations I also had to find. This included military as well as French civilians who had volunteered to help set up the base. The biggest problem was persuading French civilians to stay after they sampled British restaurant fare!
Eventually, I worked for a time in recruitment and selection before being asked to help open up Ditton Priors, a former RN ammunition depot in Shropshire, then on to Caerwent, where I inaugurated another satellite base and, finally, Hythe near Southampton, where I opened the Marine Fleet Division with vessels sailed over from the Gironde. It was in Hythe that I was asked to find a naval architect and interviewed a Captain Hood, who a few weeks before had been in all the newspapers becuse of his resigning his commission in protest against the government's naval policy!
Eventually, I returned to Burtonwood and was assigned a permanent position as a GS-11, but hated returning to England and sought a job back in Europe. I was offered a job at NATO/SHAPE HQ in Mons, but the funding was slow in coming, and meanwhile, I received another offer from the Supply and Maintenance Agency in Zweibruecken, which I accepted. I remained there for about eight months before being head hunted for a position in Geneva, Switzerland and quit goverment service.
My impressions of work in England were highly unfavorable, I must confess. In Ditton Priors I was physically threatened by a bunch of equipment handlers who applied for jobs and refused to fill out application forms; the physical part came from my telling them the wage scale! I was made responsible for setting up a canteen in Burtonwood and set up a committee composed of supervisors and workers. When I proposed one canteen for all, I had a riot on my hands! "Staff cannot possibly eat with the workers!" I had job offer refusals on the basis that work started at 8 a.m. for all; the refusals came from 'staff' aspirants who could not "possibly start work at the same time as the workers". After the conscientious workforce I had become used to in France and an egalitarian outlook, I was truly shocked by British attitudes.
Things have possibly changed now. |
| LDunlop76 | Slightly tongue-in-cheek response, BillR, but it might just have been Burtonwood attitudes. One of my work bases is close to Burtonwood and we have found people from there often seem to be awkward in some way! Apologies if I've offended anyone from Burtonwood and I don't want to tar everyone from there with the same brush, but the "stroppiness quotient" does seem to be higher round there! |
| Bill Rigby | In fact, LD, the people at Burtonwood were not all that bad, it was in the other parts of the country I gained the worst impression. The Burtonwood attitude was a classed based one, which quite astonished me because it came from both 'sides'. We had lots of applications from Liverpool, many of whom worked for Ford and when asked why they wanted to quit said there were too many strikes!
No tongue in cheek, LD! |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rigby
We had lots of applications from Liverpool, many of whom worked for Ford and when asked why they wanted to quit said there were too many strikes!
Liverpool did get itself a really bad reputation for frequent strike action. I work on the outskirts of Merseyside and plenty of people round here don't seem to like Scousers and mark then down as trouble-makers. However, I lived and trained in Liverpool for 5 years and found most Scousers extremely kind and friendly people. The city took one heck of a knock for its history of striking workers followed by the Derek Hatton era and is only now beginning to get back on its feet. |
| Bill Rigby | A couple of years ago a weekly news program here had a segment on the number of claims made by Liverpudlians against the city authorities fopr such things as tripping over a crack in a sidewalk! The city was paying out hundreds of thousands of tax payers' money to settle these cases. It was actually quite hilarious, if it was not a comment on how folks can profit from rackets! |
| rocketmanjohn | Liverpool shot itself in the foot. Millions and millions were poured into Seaforth Docks, Ford and Triumph. Nobody wanted to work, strikes were rampant and theft was a way of life. Not surprising when everthing collapsed and closed down, for years the Liverpool public screamed about unfair practices and many moved out to infect the surrounding area. Take a look around, all the places they moved to are dangerous places to be, even Leyland. I'm well aware that there are good people from Liverpool, but they are difficult to find.
John |
| noel | You're right John it did shoot itself in the foot, also with the Derek Hatton regime on the city council.
However all that has changed and the city is due to be 2008 European City of Culture, a credit to those who have worked so hard to achieve that status. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rigby
A couple of years ago a weekly news program here had a segment on the number of claims made by Liverpudlians against the city authorities fopr such things as tripping over a crack in a sidewalk! The city was paying out hundreds of thousands of tax payers' money to settle these cases. It was actually quite hilarious, if it was not a comment on how folks can profit from rackets!
Oh there was definitely a spell when "compo culture" (claiming compensation for real or imagined ills) was alive and well in Liverpool. Can't speak for current attitudes in the city.
Strikes were rampant, but the unions and their leaders especially were very powerful and people were wary of stepping out of line - being labelled a black leg or strike-breaking scab meant being ostracised by your workmates. I feel possibly not that many men wanted to strike, but were too afraid to be the first to take a stand against their union shop stewards. In a time of great violence against strike-breakers and their families, it takes a lot of guts to gainsay the union.
I disagree with you, Rocketman, that good people are hard to find in Liverpool. There are scallies everywhere and Liverpool has its fair share, and maybe poverty has made the people hard, but I've experienced as much kind-heartedness from Liverpudlians as I have in any other city I've spent time in. |
| rocketmanjohn | I have relatives and good friends from Liverpool and I know there are plenty of great people in Liverpool. I was refering to all the overspill that has moved out to places like Skelmersdale [I'll probably get nailed for this as well]. With regards to the poverty, Liverpool has had far more opportunities and cash injections than most places, and has squandered most, hence the poverty is self inflicted, and everyone suffers.
John |
| noel | I know where you're coming from John and can't disagree. However I have some great scouse friends now so have to be careful what I say. I think certain parts of the Dunkirk Lane area have been associated with these people, maybe that's why certain parts of Leyland are no longer a safe area to live in?? |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by rocketmanjohn
places like Skelmersdale [I'll probably get nailed for this as well
No, because snobby though it sounds, I have to agree with you. We live not that far from Skelmersdale and kids from there go to our local high school and, according to my kids, they're the ones who mouth off in lessons and disrupt things for the others. Kirkby comes into the same category. The primary care trust I work for has premises in 3 sites in Kirkby and they get vandalised more than our other clinics. [V] |
| noel | But it's also got it's share of good people Linda. One of my ex-workmates, a gentleman called Les Walker moved from Liverpool to Skem and you couldn't wish to meet a nicer les self opinionated man. |
| Spitfire | Alan, Accrington town hall looks the place to be on Sunday evenings. The Bulldog Comedy Club Eh! [:D][:D]. I`m certain that many other forum members would appreciate that web link. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Originally posted by noel
But it's also got it's share of good people Linda.
Yes, you're quite right, Noel. It's wrong to tar everyone with the same brush just because certain districts get a bad reputation. Actually there are some very posh houses on the outskirts of Skem! However it is also true that the only one of our dozens of clinics which requires a razor-wire fence around the compound, bullet-proof glass, digi-locks on every internal door and intercoms to let the patients in, and where staff cars are often the target of half-brick throwing local youths is one of the three in Kirkby. [V] |
| noel | I feel sorry for the good ones who have to live amongst that rabble Linda. The class society has changed from upperclass/lower class to druggies ( which often includes so called upper class,) and decent people like what we is. One reason why I stay clear of big housing estates . |
| LDunlop76 | Yes, what is it about big housing estates that seems to turn them into dens of iniquity? Is it because the kids have nothing to do so they hang around in gangs, writing graffiti on shop shutters (installed to prevent the windows being put through after opening hours) and smashing the glass in the bus shelters? Yet I don't see endless youth clubs etc. in the more middle class districts..... but maybe the better off families are able to provide more structured occupation for their kids - swimming and music lessons, supervised homework instead of letting them get detention for not doing it? On the other hand, what's the point of doing homework and getting on at school if you can't afford to go to university at the end of it and all that's left for you is a Mac-job, now that starting a career by means of an apprenticeship has all but gone by the by? |