| Agnostisism |
| The Cockney | Nobody really knows. People may have a faith or particular belief. They spend their time worshipping Icons, Figures, Memories or the teachings of parents or school.
For anyone with an open mind and particularly anyone with a scientific mind then there is no proof of God or whatever you may call it. I admit there has been a few good books telling some amazing stories but no PROOF.
No proof can only result in no conclusion.
Does it really matter where you were born? |
| Hayleypink | To discuss these kinda things....maybe my webpage would be a good start...
www.hayleypink.com
Love and Light
Hayley |
| The Cockney | Why should we choose a pink girlie thing when we have a perfectly good forum here
Does it really matter where you were born? |
| Martin | I'll let Hayley read that one when you and Jo have gone home Mark!
She might take your nickname off you...
Martin
In The Pink |
| The Cockney | Cheers mate
τΏτ
Mark
Nobody likes us, we don't care! |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Mark
Nobody likes us, we don't care!
Awww, Mark - I just saw your nickname on here! Made me giggle, actually! Did you request that or was it supplied?
Who is the "us" in your by-line? And why does nobody like you?
|
| The Cockney | LOL. You're not into football are you?
NOBODY LIKES US. WE DON'T CARE is the brand slogan of Millwall FC a south London club.
Mark
Nobody likes us, we don't care! |
| Martin | Millwall, that must be somewhere south of watford.
Actually there is a religion you should know something about Mark, it's called shopping. Ask your wife and Miss Pink about that one. They have built huge temples dedicated to shopping worshippers, must be heaven to some.
Martin
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
LOL. You're not into football are you?
NOBODY LIKES US. WE DON'T CARE is the brand slogan of Millwall FC a south London club.
Mark
Nobody likes us, we don't care!
No, I am definitely not into football! Listen, this is rugby territory round here (not that I like that either!) and our faces are too full of pie for any nancy chanting at the match!
|
| Martin | Ok Linda, 'Pie Face' sounds like a good nickname... oops wrong forum
wadda ya say?
Martin
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
Ok Linda, 'Pie Face' sounds like a good nickname... oops wrong forum
wadda ya say?
Martin
In The Pink
Already got a nickname on t'other forum, thank you!
BTW..... Millwall fans were very naughty boys last night - 47 policemen injured! I'd keep quiet about supporting them for a while, Mark!
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| The Cockney | They hurt the horses, that was unforgiveable. The thugs that caused the riot were not true fans they were idiots only in the ground to provoke violence against "The Brummies". I detest violence
Mark
Nobody likes us, we don't care! |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
The thugs that caused the riot were not true fans they were idiots only in the ground to provoke violence against "The Brummies". I detest violence
Mark
I thought clubs had managed to eliminate that small core of people not there for the footie, but merely for the opportunity to pick fights with the opposing fans - apparently not. Sad, isn't it, that some folks' main pleasure in life comes from such activity. I would call them neanderthal, but that's maligning neanderthals! Additionally, they give decent Millwall fans a bad name by association. I wonder what goes wrong in people's lives that they have to express themselves by thuggish behaviour?
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| rocketmanjohn | I always imagined god to be a benevolent kind of bloke who was landlord at my favourite pub. You know, jovial, bearded and always had a nice crowd in. No matter which beer one orders, it always comes out of the same pump and is the best pint you've ever had. Last orders never quite arrives and you always have a pleasant buzz on. Theres always a roaring fire on and a couple of spare seats not too close. Truly heaven.
Rocketmanjohn
PS god bless atheism.
|
| LDunlop76 | A lovely vision, John, but isn't that roaring fire a bit reminiscent of.... well....... Hell? <cheeky grin>
Maybe God likes to keep you reminded of the alternative.......??
|
| LDunlop76 | quote:
quote:
Sad, isn't it, that some folks' main pleasure in life comes from such activity.
Why do you think/presume its there *main* pleasure in life?
I didn't say it was all football hooligans' main pleasure - I said "some folks' main pleasure". And OK, maybe that phrase tripped off the keyboard without too much analysis on my part, but from the effort that a tiny minority of football thugs put into their activity, it would seem fair to assume that they derive a great deal of pleasure from inter-club fighting. Just my opinion, of course.
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| Martin | quote:
If we are able to open our minds to the reality that not everyone is the same then a football hooligan has a right to fight another football hooligan who is just as willing a participant..
Try telling that to an innocent bystander who gets a bottle in the face when he's exercising his right to watch his favourite team play football. Or maybe a shopkeeper who's just had his windows smahed. Football grounds and surrounding areas are not for hooligans, they are for football games and supporters.
Boxers on the other hand, are licenced, checked, monitored. Maybe the idiots who go around ruining football matches should take up a contact sport like boxing, rugby etc so that law abiding citizens can walk the streets in relative safety.
Martin
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
I really doubt its even some folks main pleasure.
Have you read the lengths a minority of these people go to in advance preparation? Secreting razor blades and Stanley knife blades in the bands of hats, to better injure their opponents, organising ambushes via mobile phones and so on. And not all the opponents are willing participants - many, as Martin states, are innocent by-standers. I wonder what other pleasure they go to as much trouble to obtain?
And where did I say "everyone is the same"? I said "some" and I meant "some". Also I said "It is sad that..." not "they are sad" - I stand by that - it makes me sad that "some" people get "some" of their kicks from hooliganism.
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| edmurfin | quote:
.. just as much as one boxer fights another blah blah. I wouldnt even dream of calling boxers sad people or suggest its a main pleasure. Not even for the minority.
a bit sententious to compare professional boxers, fighting each other for either sporting kudos or money or both, to football hooligans? Antisocial behaviour is antisocial behaviour, full stop. Using your arguments, two drunks brawling in the High Street after a night getting pissed up are also equally deserving of your approval. The football hooligans alluded to are in no better privileged position than the drunks in that regard. I daresay you shall be just as tolerant and magnaminous next time you or members of your family cop for a black eye or worse when unfortunately caught up in a hooligans melee. And, of course, you wouldn't suggest that professional boxers are "sad". Even to someone as clearly addicted to perverse and convoluted logic as you would be hard put to defend such an assertion about boxers. Not only that, i reckon you'd be scared shitless to say anything at all to them. Stop picking holes in commonly used colliquialisms like "sad" and start responding to postings in a more agreeable spirit. You come across to me as a bit of a linguistic control freak - how "sad" is that, I wonder?
Ed Murfin |
| edmurfin | [quote]
Ho dear. It would seem edmurfin thinks I am not allowed to join in a debate unless I agree with his thoughts.
[unquote]
Debate - "discuss a subject from all angles, argue" "endeavour to make up one's mind about, reflect, deliberate" From an old Odhams, but i daresay the OED will be even more explicit.
If we all agreed, there would be no debate. So, your assumption is logically groundless :-)
My contribution was founded on your own several responses to Martin and LDunlop, responses which were, as i posted, sententious, ie (from the same ancient Odhams) "ponderously trite"
You compared football hooligans TO boxers, and as they are entirely different concepts, they cannot be so compared, any more than boxing fans misbehaving can be compared TO professional footballers.
There was no discussive need to introduce boxers at all. The remarks made by other debaters concerned football hooligans - NOT footballER hooligans, NOR ordinary football fans. You may sincerely believe that two or more people have some sort of inviolate right to hack, bludgeon, fist each other to insensibility or worse. That is your right to believe. However, in a society like ours, overtly aggressive and destructive behaviour does NOT enjoy consensus approval.
I stand by my opinion (that is all it is, truly<g>)after reading your contributions, that you enjoy exercising control of debates, by
wilfully misrepresenting statements/arguments offered, and wilfully misinterpreting the spirit behind those statements/arguments offered. This may well be (i am trying to be charitable here) a function of your sincere concern to establish truths and facts to your own satisfaction. However, i would advise that the manipulation of language and reassignment of the semantics in order to prove one's superior manipulative skills, does NOT invariably prove the actual point/s one wishes to make. This a forum for ordinary people to exchange views, argue the finer points, but is not a venue for cleverclogs to demonstrate "superior" interpolative language skills. Most people prefer to leave that sort of stuff to politicians, theologians and Oxbridge social isolates. For your amusement, I add here a short essay on Argument, written some time ago.
In human society, arguments are conducted in two principal ways. The first of these, we shall call 'Method A'.
Method A involves the making of unsupported assertions. These assertions may, or may not, reflect the truth of the matter being argued, but an important characteristic of Method A is that proof is never offered for inspection. Those who favour Method A enjoy face to face confrontation, and when so engaged tend to speak very loudly, often in an aggressive tone.
The use of highly coloured and emotive language is mandatory, and the propagation of ideas is often liberally punctuated with obscenities and insults. The principal aim of Method A users is to overwhelm reason.
Those listeners who do not agree with them, or do not agree with sufficient alacrity, are accused by Method A users of being too stupid to understand - or more often - too wicked to want to understand. If the listener also follows method A, there may be a steep rise in both aggression and volume, and an equally steep fall in lucidity. The faces of those arguing become first pale with suppressed anger, then, abruptly, very red with uncontrolled rage. The debate usually ends in one of two ways.
The notional "loser" glares defiantly, turns about face - and stamps from the room, slamming the door behind him. Or, he throws a fist at his opponent, precipitating an unseemly scuffle, in which either or both may suffer a bloody nose or a black eye, or worse.
The second method, which we shall dub Method B, involves the putting up of a proposition, followed by arguments in its favour. These arguments are logical and reasonable. They are presented - clearly or not according to the proficiency of the presenter - in such a way as to invite an equally reasonable and logical examination by those to whom the proposition is put.
Proofs are offered in a gentlemanly fashion, and care is taken to avoid emphasising too much those points upon which we are most convinced. Objectivity is the name of the game. When all, or all available, aspects of the proposition have been so discussed
and dissected, a conclusion will be reached that either satisfies both parties, or results in an amicable agreement to differ.
Method A is much the most popular. For one thing, it is highly entertaining - not least to those taking part. It must be said that there is much psychological satisfaction to be had from a good, vigorous session of successful browbeating. Even the defeated tend to enjoy the sense of injustice engendered by defeat in this kind of debate. The point of argument may not be properly resolved but the argument itself is enjoyed for its own sake.
If this was as far as the enthusiasts for Method A were inclined to go, then, though their methods might prove irritating to the reasonable among us, no great harm would attach to the general course of human progress. Unhappily, there are those who
continue to be discontented. A black eye, or bloody nose, is inadequate to satisfy their desire for domination in debate.
Many of them will argue - sorry, assert - that the surest way to stifle opposition to their view is to slit the throats of the questioners. It is a very successful mode of argument as the briefest glimpse at the record of human history may show.
Using Method B, we strive in vain to show that the slitting of throats does not prove the truth of the slitter's assertion, but demonstrates only his superior ability in the art of slitting. Those who do attempt such proof, invariably become the sooner acquainted with the knife.
The modes of argument are mutually exclusive. It is useless for a Method B man to argue with a Method A man. The only way Method B man may win, is to suspend his intellectual integrity for the duration of the discussion and adopt Method A. He must, however, be wholehearted in this approach, and thoroughly abandon scruple, if he is not to succumb to the other's greater facility with his Method. This way are wars started.
Method B, though not so popular, is more likely to produce a consensus at its end. It is, however, not so much fun.
I prefer Method B. It is always gratifying to win an argument by reason and logic. The sense of superiority thus provoked, though less intense than that occasioned by Method A, is generally (not really an assertion this , more an observation!) more lasting.
Of course, should my adherence to Method B not result in intellectual triumph, then I am sometimes disposed to revert to Method A in order to redress my sense of grievance.
I am not alone in this aberrant behaviour, as a cursory glance at the history of man in the world will demonstrate!
copyright R Edgar Harding 2000
Ed Murfin |
| Martin | quote:
Martin.. How did you manage to quote the sentance and then missunderstand it? Why are you talking about bystanders? I said one football hooligan fighting another football hooligan where both agree and for some reason want to participate. Bystanders ????
And where do you think these hooligans do their dirty deeds?
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| Martin | quote:
Had I known so many people could missunderstand such a simple sentance I would have brought my crayons and drawn a picture :)))))))))))))))))))))))
quote:
Thats a shame. I rghtly or wrongly presumed this was a forum where we could debate things in an adult manner without resorting to insults and name calling :(
Nuff said!
Martin
In The Pink |
| edmurfin | quote:
just remeber i havent insulted or attacked anyone. myu only crime is having a point of view you lot dont agree with. and for this..
Awww! Come on, Kipax! Don't get all huffy! You DID insult people - all of those contributing to the topic - by posting a sarcastic remark about bringing crayons to draw pictures for us. I inferred from that a definite insult to people's ability to understand what you were writing about! The "nice" ( that is, accurate, but also more polite) way to persuade people to your view is to RESTATE your argument in clearer terms? If you have been unclear, then it is hardly surprising if some cannot see what you mean. Implying that people are "thick" and in need of simplistic crayon drawings to help them understand you is, actually, VERY insulting in my opinion! And i think referring to your inability to persuade so far as a "crime" is rather silly and smacks of petulance - don't you think?
Instead of peevish and resentful comments, why not rethink your presentations of arguments? Who knows? You might find as a result of clearer expression more agreement - or at the very least, a greater willingness to consider what you opine?
Best wishes :-)
Ed Murfin |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
LDunlop76 Same question to you. whats all thsi about shopkeepers and bystanders.
Please show me exactly where in my post I mentioned shopkeepers? I mentioned bystanders by quoting what Martin had said. Please do me the courtesy of reading what I post before you criticise it.
I found your remark about bringing crayons highly insulting - and no amount of smileys after the words can undo the effect.
You accuse a few of us of misunderstanding you - but you seem to be misunderstanding me - asking me to respond to points I did not make.
As to the original comment which sparked all this off - about violence being some folks' main pleasure? As I write BBC2 is showing a programme about football hooliganism. Darren Wells, a former football hooligan, was interviewed and described a week of violence at Euro 2000 during which he was arrested, deported and imprisoned on his return to GB as "the best week of my life". Quod erat demonstrandum.
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Thats a shame. I rghtly or wrongly presumed this was a forum where we could debate things in an adult manner without resorting to insults and name calling :(
but unlike adults you seem unable to debate the point without calling me names and resorting to personal insults :(
Now who's thinking everyone's the same? Please show me exactly where I have insulted you or called you names.
|
| The Cockney | Well, it's all going off in Mark's topic! I am honoured that such learned people should have the time to write a few thoughts, whether they be in anger, malice or good humour, within this little corner of Leyland Town.
In L Dunlop's defence I think we should remember that these "football hooligans" were actually attacking the police, their horses and family homes indiscriminently. Any man that would risk the lives of innocent people, and I think setting fire to Cars parked outside houses could be included here, whilst acting like crazed agitators taunting a police line should be removed from society.
Mark
Nobody likes us, we don't care! |
| Martin | Mark, there's no end to your talents matey. It must be all that Thames spring water you drink.
Martin
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
In L Dunlop's defence ........
Mark
Nobody likes us, we don't care!
Thank you, kind sir! 
|
| LDunlop76 | Thanks also to Ed and Martin for their contribution to the debate. I get the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that Kipax prefers argument to debate and isn't happy when people can't acquiesce to his views.......
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| Lady Griffin | Is this debate closed?
If not I'll tap out a theory when I come back from my Rest and Recreation.
These are tricky topics and require much thought.
No violence though.That's how the war of Jenkinson's ear started not to mention countless other holy conflicts.
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| noel | I was puzzled how a subject called agnosticism would change to football hooligans. Still it made good reading, pity about Kipax taking the huff but I do disagree strongly with his logic.
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| Martin | quote:
I'll tap out a theory when I come back from my Rest and Recreation.
These are tricky topics and require much thought.
Go for it 
Martin
In The Pink
 |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
I was puzzled how a subject called agnosticism would change to football hooligans.
It was me and my big mouth, Noel! I asked Cockney what the quote under his signature was all about and the rest is history!
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Is this debate closed?
If not I'll tap out a theory when I come back from my Rest and Recreation.
Whether your theory will concern agnosticism or football hooliganism, I look forward to reading your views!
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| noel | quote:
It was me and my big mouth, Noel! I asked Cockney what the quote under his signature was all about and the rest is history!
Right LD I'll leave it at that, shame because it could have been a good thread. It *was* a good thread just a pity it got out of hand.
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Right LD I'll leave it at that, shame because it could have been a good thread. It *was* a good thread just a pity it got out of hand.
Well, we could always start the discussion afresh!
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| edmurfin | Start afresh? Hmmm! How about, let me see now - puts thinking cap on - ah yes!
Football is about allegiances. (yes, i know it's also about 22 eejits kicking a ball about and some fool giving up his saturday afternoon to referee, but that's another topic<g>} The team colours attract fans in these allegiances, so much so that to be seen wearing said colours is deemed an accolade amongst those sharing the team allegiances. In a similar way, to be seen wearing the colours of a different team attracts - at the very least - a degree of scoffing<G>
In Roman times, the chariot racing scene was marked by allegiances - colour being the principal way those allegiances were identified. Now, it happens that each of the colours took for support one or more of the pantheon of pagan Gods then extant. And, of course, said Gods represented a particular religious bent. In a sense, possibly, chariot racing was a species of spirituality. It seems not unreasonable to extrapolate from that ancient "spirituality" attaching to chariot racing to the modern obsession with football. Hard to imagine? Perhaps, but it may be no coincidence that certain kinds of "classical" music, much stemming from avowed or putative spirituality on the part of composers IS extraordinarily popular with football fans - who share, with followers of religion, many of the fervent beliefs that lead to epithets like "fanatic" being applied to them! Or am i talking total sphericals? LOL.
Edx
Ed Murfin |
| noel | quote:
Start afresh? Hmmm! How about, let me see now - puts thinking cap on - ah yes!
? Perhaps, but it may be no coincidence that certain kinds of "classical" music, much stemming from avowed or putative spirituality on the part of composers IS extraordinarily popular with football fans - who share, with followers of religion, many of the fervent beliefs that lead to epithets like "fanatic" being applied to them! Or am i talking total sphericals? LOL.
Edx
Ed Murfin
Umm, I think you probably are .
Football colours are tribal allegiances according to Desmond Wilcox .
This would tend to support the theory that it is a pagan thing.
In any event if there were a god PNE would be in the premier league and Blackpool in the Conference. 
Seriously my own beliefs are atheist. I see no cause to believe there is a god, that he created heaven and earth in 6 days and rested on the seventh. I think it is mumbo jumbo.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| edmurfin | <and rested on the seventh. I think it is mumbo jumbo.>
I agree! The idea that a being responsible for a cosmos so obviously intensely busy would have time to rest just doesn't add up<g>
The biblical creation represents the reasoning of an imaginative species in its early, less knowledgeable history. Given the rudimentary understanding then extant, the six days story actually follows a logical thought stream. It has a childlike charm and beauty that continues to appeal to many.
I wonder how we (the imaginative species) would explain creation today had we, for some peculiar reason, never in our entire history until now given it a thought?
Ed Murfin |
| rocketmanjohn | Religion gives power and control to those who wish to dominate others. This has been the the reason for all religious denominations sinse day one, some more than others. Believers have the faith to believe in what they are told, they need no proof.
However, who are we to criticise others who wish to let their lives be organised in this way, they do have a choice. Who was it that coined the phrase "Religion is a crutch for the feeble minded too lean on".
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| Lady Griffin | Of course we don't know.
Remember all the great minds that have debated this conundrum.
Didn't Omar Khayyam say that he went everywhere to find an answer but always "came out by the same door wherein I went.
And poor Socrates-forced to swallow hemlock because he asked one too many questions about truth.
But think of the world without the literature,painting, sculpture architecture,music which has arisen from this great leap of faith we are expected to make.
Well Cockney you did start it.
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| Lady Griffin | Can't help feeling we are debating different things.
Life after death?
The nature of God?
Religious trappings?
The spirit?
Sacrifice of the innocents?(the horses who don't ask to be on the scene of violence)
Sorry but am off again tomorrow for a long weekend.Enjoy the peace and the football.Remember it is only a game!!!!
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| noel | quote:
Sorry but am off again tomorrow for a long weekend.Enjoy the peace and the football.Remember it is only a game!!!!
Try telling Bill Shankley that. ( It may take him a long time to answer)
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Lady Griffin | Sorry Bill,
Couldn't help stirring the pot.
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Who was it that coined the phrase "Religion is a crutch for the feeble minded too lean on".
Dunno, but I've always liked Voltaire's "If God did not exist then we have had to invent him"
I do not believe in God in the traditional view of "big cop in the sky". I do not believe in God as such. I do not follow a set religious path. I do not like dogma. However, I do believe there is more to "life, the universe and everything" than we are ever likely to have understanding of.
Einstein said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
He also wrote:
'The most enjoyable emotion we can feel is the sense of mystery. It is the origin of all true art and science. Those that have never sensed this emotion, those that have never been wrapped up in their own thoughts and been spellbound in wondering emotion are as the dead, their eyes are closed.
This probing into the mysteries of life, mixed up with natural fear, was the origin of religion.
To realise that things incomprehensible to us really exist, in the form of greater wisdom and more radiant beauty, which our limited faculties are only able to understand in the more primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling, is at the centre of real religioous feeling. In this sense - and only in this sense - I belong to the company of those people who are profoundly religious.'
We hear a lot about mind, body, spirit these days. I think it is hard-wired into us to need something beyond our bodies and minds - something spiritual. That does not mean we need church (though great if that works for you!). For me, my life is enriched when I can enjoy the beauties Mother Earth presents to me, celebrate the changing seasons, and gaze up into a clear night sky and admire the glories of the Universe.
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| noel | quote:
I do not believe in God in the traditional view of "big cop in the sky". I do not believe in God as such. . For me, my life is enriched when I can enjoy the beauties Mother Earth presents to me, celebrate the changing seasons, and gaze up into a clear night sky and admire the glories of the Universe.
What a wonderful conception of life. One I would totally agree with. I consider myself an atheist though I was a goody 2 shoes choir boy at St. Ambrose's for many years .
Isn't it ironic that many of the world's troubles have been caused by differences in religion or that religion has been the "excuse " for the troubles.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Lady Griffin | Well sorted Wiganer. A vision of some kind of temperamental God ,like Zeus,kind and benevolent one minute, but who when crossed hurls down thunderbolts which harm mortals indiscriminately is a sure fire fear tactic only serving to stifle and dominate.
Sometimes I think Shakespeare came very close.He seemed to say it all.
To be or not to be?
The slings and arrows of outragious fortune and the sea of troubles-well there are plenty of those around the world.
Perchance to dream-the mystery of life and death.
Another gem from Omar the ball doesn't ask where it's going -just goes from player to player until the games's over.
I rather like his vision of the loaf of bread the glass of wine and his lady friend beside him as an acceptance that the mystery will not be solved by continual searching to the point of madness.
Existentialists-now maybe they've got the right notion- eat drink etc Carpe Diem!
Like Wiganer I want to use my energies enjoying the spiritual beauty
of nature and art.
If not that's where the fanaticism comes to the fore----at least that's my hap'orth.
You can't be an Atheist Noel otherwise you would ignore this section as ravings.
Cogito ergo sum.
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| noel | quote:
You can't be an Atheist Noel otherwise you would ignore this section as ravings.
Cogito ergo sum.
Devil's Advocate Lady G.
Je bois, par suite je suis.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Lady Griffin | Do we need our long spoons!
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Isn't it ironic that many of the world's troubles have been caused by differences in religion or that religion has been the "excuse " for the troubles.
Yes and doubly so when you think that the religious people calling for war to be waged are usually totally ignoring the teachings of their religion in so doing. "Love they neighbour as thyself" didn't enter into the matter when there were crusades to be fought or witches to be burnt!
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
the mystery will not be solved by continual searching to the point of madness.
There's a saying which I cannot recall exactly.... it relates to happiness, but I think it may apply in some small measure to the mystery of "life, the universe and everything" too. It goes something like:
Happiness is a butterfly - if you chase it, you will not catch it; but if you sit still, sometimes it will alight upon you.
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| LDunlop76 | Found the proper quote:
"Happiness is as a butterfly,
When pursued, is always beyond our grasp,
But which, if you will sit down quietly, may light upon you."
- Nathaniel Hawthorne
|
| noel | You weren't far off with your first attempt LD. Talking about the meaning of life and changing the subject ( just for a minute or two) I was reading the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy recently . A computer was built to determine the meaning of life. The question was posed to it. The computer replied that it was a very complicated question and would take a long time to determine. Many years later the computer was ready with the answer. Before it gave it it said " you're not going to like this". "The answer is 42".
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Lady Griffin | Th butterfly is a beautiful image and such an apt quotation.The soul is after all like a butterfly and the body the cocoon.
I shall never forget that.
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| Lady Griffin | This is totally off the topic but it does concern faith and computers.
How can you trust these jolly things when they cannot answer a simple question about the meaning of life AND how come I treat myself to a super duper fast Pentium 4 with oodles of space and ram!!!!!!instead of my slow 100 mhtz Pentium 100 which gave faithful service for three years and was second hand what's more ,while the shiny new one after 20 days has to have a new hard drive.Is that fair?
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| noel | quote:
AND how come I treat myself to a super duper fast Pentium 4 with oodles of space and ram!!!!!!instead of my slow 100 mhtz Pentium 100 which gave faithful service for three years and was second hand what's more ,while the shiny new one after 20 days has to have a new hard drive.Is that fair?
It always pains me when something ( summat) goes wrong with my PC. Trouble is they churn the parts out these days . My 300MHZ machine which was super fast last year is going slower and slower. I think it's all the additional programs I've loaded.
Still beats the old Spectrum with it's 64k of hard drive ( and that was state of the art back in the early eighties.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
This is totally off the topic but it does concern faith and computers.
How can you trust these jolly things when they cannot answer a simple question about the meaning of life AND how come I treat myself to a super duper fast Pentium 4 with oodles of space and ram!!!!!!instead of my slow 100 mhtz Pentium 100 which gave faithful service for three years and was second hand what's more ,while the shiny new one after 20 days has to have a new hard drive.Is that fair?
As I remember it from "Hitchikers", 42 was the right answer to the meaning of life, but a second computer had to be built to ask the question correctly! If it's coming dow to computers and faith, you could always try laying hands on your new computer, Lady G, and giving it healing!
Ah, Spectrums! Remember the 20 minutes wait to load a game programme into them? Happy days!!!
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| rocketmanjohn | '42' is the number of chromasomes that make a human being thingy. My son had '42' on all his T shirts for years, he was an avid 'Hitch Hikers' fan, still is, I think. Before that, Reginald Perrin and his 'Grot Shop' was his favourite.
John
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| Lady Griffin | How many pages are these topics allowed to be?
Can they go on forever!
Just a thought!
In another two months this one could be twenty pages long.
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| noel | quote:
'42' is the number of chromasomes that make a human being thingy. My son had '42' on all his T shirts for years, he was an avid 'Hitch Hikers' fan, still is, I think. Before that, Reginald Perrin and his 'Grot Shop' was his favourite.
John
I didn't know that John, you learn something every day. We'd always wondered where the computer dug that one from. In reply to Lady G, you've got this habit of saying what I'd been thinking but never bother to write, how many pages etc. Maybe the format could be altered to that that groups use eg. the Yahoo groups where all messages are sent under the same folder.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
'42' is the number of chromasomes that make a human being thingy.
<~~ puts Miss Picky hat on
Actually it's 46 chromosomes in a human bean
[url]http://www.accessexcellence.org/AB/IE/Intro_The_Human_Genome.html[/url]
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| noel | More thoughts on the meaning of life and the number 42.
For example, there are many mentions of the number in the Book of Revelation. Others have made a game of finding 42s, such as these:
The angle at which light reflects off of water to create a rainbow is 42 degrees.
Two physical constants in the universe are the speed of light and thediameter of a proton. It takes light 10 to the minus 42nd power seconds to cross the diameter of a proton.
The sum of the ordinal alphabetic positions of the initials (SPG) for Stan (P.) Gibilisco, an oft-published science and technology writer, is equal to 42 (S=19, P=16, G=7).
A barrel holds 42 gallons.
I go for the barrel theory , I think it's great and the least obvious.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Martin | quote:
How many pages are these topics allowed to be?
Can they go on forever!
Just a thought!
In another two months this one could be twenty pages long.
I'm not sure how many pages are allowed... I can archive the messages over a certain age though. On a similar note, I have been asked if we can arrange the messages so that the newest is at the top, there is a MOD for this but I'll have to try it when I've got enough time, I don't think I'll manage it when Hayley is here
I'm also looking into putting a little calendar on the forum... oohh am I in the right topic
In The Pink |
| rocketmanjohn | I stand corrected, 42 is the number of chromasomes in a rat!
John
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| Martin | quote:
I stand corrected, 42 is the number of chromasomes in a rat!
John
Weren't there rats or mice in Hitch Hikers guide?
In The Pink |
| Lady Griffin | Am totally lost among these mathematical gems re genetics.
I shall read that Hitchhikers guide.Must have been popular at a time when I was barefoot and tied to the kitchen sink.
Can't help wondering about Cockney,tossing his pearly hat into the ring to kick around and leaving us to sort out life's great mysteries without a word of argument.
Maybe we have changed his views somewhat and blinded him with philosophy.
Remember Murphy.Just as well he didn't use a computer or the blue screen of death would have wiped out his law.
Still waiting for my new computer to be healed .Must be serious.
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| Lady Griffin | I really don't mind personally how many pages we get to as long as the thread is there.Mind you it has been tenuous at times.
From God to rodents!!!!
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| Lady Griffin | Noel you have my sympathy.
Both my husband and various other relatives have said at times.'And DON'T tell me what to think!!
Am working on it.
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| noel | quote:
I really don't mind personally how many pages we get to as long as the thread is there.Mind you it has been tenuous at times.
From God to rodents!!!!
There is a link. I think ( said he hastily scratching his head.)
But yes there are rats in Hitchikers Guide.
There was one called Fred I think from Alpha Centauri. My brain is hurting now.
Try this web-site I just found about rats.
http://www.ratweb.fsnet.co.uk/home.htm
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
quote:
I stand corrected, 42 is the number of chromasomes in a rat!
John
Weren't there rats or mice in Hitch Hikers guide?
Ah! 42 chromosomes in a rat! (Ta for the rat site, by the way, Noel, but yeeeuw! I've never got over Mum finding a rat sitting calmly in our kitchen one morning eating the cornflakes box. Next door's kept ducks and a rat had been brought in accidentally in a bale of straw - got into our house through a broken ventilation panel. Yuck, yuck, yuck!!)
There were mice in Hitchhikers - there are great clips from the TV series on this site:
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/mice.shtml[/url]
Edited by - LDunlop76 on 19 Jun 2002 01:26:52 |
| Lady Griffin | Find myself gazing at T shirts now in case I do see 42 on the front.
Why does Jamie Oliver have 1+ 1+ 1 on his?
Is it I- Me- Myself in a mathematical format and why does it not add up to anything.Is this one of the great mysteries of life!
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| The Cockney | NO GOD HERE THEN
:D
Well, we've been off on our hols , looking for the answer but all I've come back with is cheap fags, shite photo's and a few more kilos for the waist collection!
Whilst I was away I noticed a few obvious Agnostics have nothing better to do than grace these very pages. Welcome!
The Cockney is back, ready to be facetious, rude or just plain loud!
Mark
Nobody likes us, we don't care! |
| Martin | Good to see you back Mark, I hope you and jo have brought back something nice for me and Hayley... It doesn't have to be pink or girlie...... 
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | Where've ya bin then, Mark? Somewhere nice, I hope?
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| Lady Griffin | Hi and welcome back Mark as have been waiting eagerly for more pearls of wisdom and a summary of your thoughts on our meanderings.
Maybe you've modified your very entrenched conclusions somewhat.Hope you had a restful time.
Cheers
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| edmurfin | Hi all! A recent PC crash turned the machine into an electronic black hole, into which disappeared the last three months of emails, downloads and other electronic minutiae. I've only just logged back on to the forum today, and was delighted, entertained and informed by the last three pages of posts in this topic area. Many thanks to all contributors.
Edx
Ed Murfin |
| Lady Griffin | You have my deepest sympathy Ed on your computer glitches.
A new hard drive imploded within two weeks but my baby is now back in the fold.It's a sad time.
LG
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| noel | quote:
Hi all! A recent PC crash turned the machine into an electronic black hole, into which disappeared the last three months of emails, downloads and other electronic minutiae. I've only just logged back on to the forum today, and was delighted, entertained and informed by the last three pages of posts in this topic area. Many thanks to all contributors.
Edx
Ed Murfin
Welcome back Ed. Infuriating isn't it when that happens. Whatever did we do without our PCs.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Lady Griffin | How come you're on line Noel within a minute of me.It's a mystery.What about the date line!
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| Lady Griffin | Anyway is it Q.E.D or what?We're still waiting for The Cockney to shoot us all down in flames re our philosophical conclusions.Still he did leave in search of Sangria or was it Shangi La!
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| noel | quote:
How come you're on line Noel within a minute of me.It's a mystery.What about the date line!
I posted that at 8-29am LG, I guess it's around 5-29pm your end?
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
I posted that at 8-29am LG, I guess it's around 5-29pm your end?
I usually use NZ as being 12 hours ahead as a rough guide - though daylight saving can throw it out by an hour either way, depending on the time of day. However I recently discovered this useful website - well, it's useful if you're trying to work out whether your phone call to a distant mate is going to get them out of bed or not!
[url]http://www.worldtimezone.com/index24.html[/url]
{{{Ed}}}
Sorry to hear about your computer difficulties. Did you ever retrieve your lost data or is it gone forever? Nice to see you posting here again, anyway! 
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| Lady Griffin | Thinks perhaps I should stay away from this forum for a while.It's addictive stuff.Then again I'd lose the threads and get short tempered.
You're very cool about your computer problem ,Ed.It was kick the cat time when mine was caput.
When my old one was getting tired mainly because of the huge load being inflicted on it I had a jigsaw to do while waiting for the next click.Eventually it came to a complete standstill.Like you I lost everything.
It's another sad time.Stay cool.
LG
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| edmurfin | You're very cool about your computer problem ,Ed.It was kick the cat time when mine was caput.
LOL! I haven't got a cat, so i just glared ferociously at a passing housefly<g> I have to be cool - i'm supposedly an electronics engineer and reputedly unflappable - which when it comes to recovering lost data i often am - except this time my copies of Unformat and Mirror DOS utilities were corrupted! I sat back, confidently expecting the full status ante to be restored - but alas those months of data had simply vanished. Thankfully, everything else was retrieved and, bizarrely, a few Word files i'd thought, unhappily, long ago gone! Maybe there is a God, somewhere - getting back on topic<g> Perhaps, like the spontaneous atomic manifests of one of Hawkinge's black holes, the missing data will, over time, reappear in random unconnected lumps in this small electronic universe of mine:-) Or, i could just shrug my shoulders, forget it, and buy a masochistic cat for future problem solving<g>
Edx
Ed Murfin |
| Lady Griffin | It's them boggarts what keeps doin them nasty things to computers.Those critters are alive and well in all those black holes--- surrounded by motherboards and data.
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| Martin | Maybe it's the Boggarts that are affecting the web site... We are trying to catch the buggers
In The Pink |
| noel | quote:
Maybe it's the Boggarts that are affecting the web site... We are trying to catch the buggers
In The Pink
I must admit I've never known a web-site so bad as this in the last few days, this is the first time I've been able to access it since last Thursday. Are all the problems solved now?
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Martin | quote:
I must admit I've never known a web-site so bad as this in the last few days, this is the first time I've been able to access it since last Thursday. Are all the problems solved now?
In a a word, NO! I've made the forum a bit more stable but the rest is down to the Hosting company. I've emailed them on several occasions and on Monday they actually admitted there was a problem with the speed of their servers, which they say they are trying to sort out. The static web pages seem to work most of the time but the asp pages are constantly timing out.
I would swap hosts but as I can't afford to right now, we'll have to wait and see if they do manage to add some zip to the servers.
In The Pink |
| LDunlop76 | quote:
I must admit I've never known a web-site so bad as this in the last few days, this is the first time I've been able to access it since last Thursday. Are all the problems solved now?
The significant owl hoots in the night.
And isn't it a sign of how addicted we all are that we kept trying to get on here?
It was really frustrating to be repeatedly timed out, but these things happen! Hope your forum problems are soon behind you, Martin!
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| noel | quote:
[quote]
And isn't it a sign of how addicted we all are that we kept trying to get on here?
It was really frustrating to be repeatedly timed out, but these things happen! Hope your forum problems are soon behind you, Martin!
I'm just glad people have kept trying. At a time when the site is in it's infancy it needs all these gremlins kicking out.
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Lady Griffin | Congrats on your century Wiganer.
Thanks for the site .Will suss it out.All these weather reports from your way are certainly making me feel better.Sad about the tennis-hardly strawberries and cream environment.Hope Henman can do it.Will be watching avidly.If it's any consolation it's bucketing down here too but hopefully will cease when my sister arrives end of this month.She lives in Manchester so probably won't notice.
LG
By the way tell me how to add a nice coloured signature.Am a bit slow with technology.
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| Lady Griffin | .Am so relieved it wasn't my hard drive again.The cat's safe this time.
Have faith that all will be well from now on.
LG
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
Congrats on your century Wiganer.
........
She lives in Manchester so probably won't notice.
Thanks for the congrats, Lady G! I hadn't noticed I'd clocked up so many posts!
LOL @ your comment re Mancunian sister not noticing the rain!!
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| noel | quote:
[
Thanks for the congrats, Lady G! I hadn't noticed I'd clocked up so many posts!
LOL @ your comment re Mancunian sister not noticing the rain!!
Think we'll appoint Lady G as our official statistician. Congratulations LD
The significant owl hoots in the night. |
| Lady Griffin | Only notice these things because I'm trying to keep my brain from becoming addled.Am told the grey cells dry up otherwise.
What a laugh!A statistician with my history in Maths and Wilky as a teacher!
When it came to the General Certificate in Maths I wrote NOTHING in the margin.Well it did say to do that.
Unfortunately I wrote little else.So stats is out.Sorry.
A teacher called Miss Twist at BGS ,who had the same frizzy hair as me, was kind and got me doing Algebra with reasonable success.To what end I can't think but just shows what a bit of human compassion can do------since this is the Religion topic.
But the milk of human kindness was missing in yours truly yesterday.
School holidays and undisciplined kids running everywhere in the shopping mall straight into the paths of grey haired grannies and granddads.No respect.I HATE these huge complexes -such a pain when you only want to get a few items to have loud "music"from every angle and hordes of people sitting around licking ice creams watching the world go by or blocking the path.
As for the younger generation who stand in corners with their ciggies,hoods and lack of knowledge of the English language.Well.Do they really only know a word or two?
Well as I said before we have to have faith.
Had to get that one hate in ,then it will have to be 'Peace, brothers and sisters again'
LG
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| LDunlop76 | quote:
When it came to the General Certificate in Maths I wrote NOTHING in the margin.Well it did say to do that.
LG
ROFL! Oh, the logic of childhood!
Thanks for the smile, Lady G
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| Lady Griffin | Can't think why I wasn't made even a sub-prefect when everyone else was promoted.Miss Rahill said it was because I was too quiet but I think she was making that up.
Actually thanks for reminding me that there was a hierarchy even among prefects- Sub and Full.They were certainly powerful little Gods and goddesses weren't they.Had the privilege of leaving the dining room first and could give detentions as well as holding those courts for baddies.
They did appoint me a sub eventually under sufference but by that time I'd had enough so only reigned a couple of months in that role.
LG
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| Lady Griffin | Just remembered to let you know there is a God out there.Have been having trouble with Messenger and after clicking an awful lot of Help links on an awful lot of sites finally tracked down a PERSON at Microsoft who mailed me with his name and ID number in order to help me solve the problem.AND invited me to mail him if there was anything else he could help with.So
have faith.There are not just enormous rooms full of computer equipment out there spewing out help links. There are some human beings.
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